Another reason to fly GA...

As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest .
Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do not
see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An M-16/AR-15 is
a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters I
am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy on
out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when the
only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from an
ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you? Makes
a difference :-)

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the 500
yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with open
sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a handgun
while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest .
Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do not
see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An M-16/AR-15
is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters
I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy
on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when
the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise from
an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

but John,
50 or so shots and not hit anything? Now firing the old .45 out the huey
door while flying, doubt I could hit anything ..but you'd have to be running
away firing over your shoulder not to hit anything that close. My grandma
could get a better grouping than that! heck alot of these "shoot outs" are
within 15 feet. Maybe it's all the donut glaze stuck on their trigger
fingers?

Semper Fi,
Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...
I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest
. Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do
not see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An
M-16/AR-15 is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500 meters
I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get wayyyy
on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone Cops when
the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a bruise
from an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)
Semper Fi,
John

{Formerly}
Headquarters Company
2nd Force Service Support Group
Fleet Marine Force Atlantic
Camp Lejeune, NC

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
but John,
50 or so shots and not hit anything? Now firing the old .45 out the huey
door while flying, doubt I could hit anything ..but you'd have to be
running away firing over your shoulder not to hit anything that close.
My grandma could get a better grouping than that! heck alot of these
"shoot outs" are within 15 feet. Maybe it's all the donut glaze stuck on
their trigger fingers?

Semper Fi,
Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...
I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)


"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
As an old Marine you could say I have been in a 'few" firefights..and my
target was the basic human "shadow" and all hits are in the center chest
. Also Marine rifle coach with 4 awards expert rifleman. And I still do
not see how a 'trained' professional marksman can miss so much. An
M-16/AR-15 is a very accurate weapon in the right hands.

Patrick

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...

W P Dixon wrote:

Wow that's sad!,
I don't understand why the cops have such poor shots. At 500
meters I am bullseye 10 out 0f 10 , with a scope that range would get
wayyyy on out there. Really makes the officers look like Keystone
Cops when the only inflicted wound in a 50 round fired shoot out is a
bruise from an ejected 9mm empty brass!


Ever been in a firefight where the 'target' is shooting back at you?
Makes a difference :-)

Yep,
The old .45, we seemed to always have the most rattlin' pistols available.
Loose barrels and all, but was sad to see them start going bye bye in the
80's. And now I carry a 9mm, would not dream of carrying the .45 anymore. I
like the .45 stopping power, but I am much more accurate with the 9mm. Can't
say that is the way it is for everyone but it sure makes a difference in my
grouping!
But hey maybe we may be onto something there? Maybe some of those
officers need to caliber down? Maybe they could also get a better grouping
by using the smaller cal? I like the CZ52 myself, matter of fact I need to
get me another one! Pick them up really cheap and do some custom work on it
and you have a nice custom slabside for a fraction of the cost of the new
tricked out .45's . And sorry guys , I guess we have gotten way off the
aviation toipc here.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
(formerly)
HML-167, HMM-261 REIN
MCAS NEW RIVER
USS Iwo Jima 22MAU
Peacekeeper

"John E. Carty" wrote in message
...
Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)
Semper Fi,
John

{Formerly}
Headquarters Company
2nd Force Service Support Group
Fleet Marine Force Atlantic
Camp Lejeune, NC

John E. Carty wrote:

Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)

You didn't put one in the chamber and carry "cocked and locked?"

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
John E. Carty wrote:

Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)

You didn't put one in the chamber and carry "cocked and locked?"

Matt

Never :-)

John E. Carty wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

John E. Carty wrote:


Patrick,
Hey, that old .45 certainly had better stopping power then a 9mm, but we
only had 7 rounds in which to hit the target! :-)

You didn't put one in the chamber and carry "cocked and locked?"

Matt


Never :-)


If you do, then you are carrying 8! At least if you add the one back to
the clip that you stripped for the chamber... :-)

Matt

John E. Carty wrote:

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the 500
yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with open
sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a handgun
while on the move are two entirely different things :-)

What size is the 10 ring on the targets you were using at 500 yards?

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
John E. Carty wrote:

I'm also a former combat Marine and could always hit 10 for 10 from the
500 yard line (it was never measured in meters for us) with an M-16 with
open sights. However, firing a rifle from the prone position and firing a
handgun while on the move are two entirely different things :-)

What size is the 10 ring on the targets you were using at 500 yards?

Matt

To tell the truth I really don't know. I never worked in the pits pulling
them :-)