No SID in clearance, fly it anyway?

wrote:
No, it's not obvious to me that you telling me to hold short of the
runway is because an aircraft is on final.

Newps wrote:
Then you are blind because the aircraft is right there on final.

There are airports where you can't see final from the hold short line
due to trees. Runway 29 at HPN comes to mind.

That being said, I really don't see any operational difference to me why
I've been asked to hold short.

Roy Smith wrote:
wrote:

No, it's not obvious to me that you telling me to hold short of the
runway is because an aircraft is on final.


Newps wrote:

Then you are blind because the aircraft is right there on final.


There are airports where you can't see final from the hold short line
due to trees. Runway 29 at HPN comes to mind.

That being said, I really don't see any operational difference to me why
I've been asked to hold short.

Whatever. If it is obvious then I don't have to tell you why. If it
isn't obvious then I do, for whatever reason. Don't make it more
difficult than it is.

Newps wrote:

Whatever. If it is obvious then I don't have to tell you why. If it
isn't obvious then I do, for whatever reason. Don't make it more
difficult than it is.

"Whatever" says a lot. Your perspective is that of a controller who thinks in
terms of trying to do the job right for eight hours, then split for a beer or
whatever. ;-)

The informed pilot perspective, however, is to act upon the premise of "the
least cost of being wrong" when confronted with an ambiguous situation,
perceived or real. It's called survival.

And, for you to presume I can see the aircraft on final disregards many
possibilities, including perhaps that the weather is 200 and 1/2.~

wrote:

Newps wrote:


Whatever. If it is obvious then I don't have to tell you why. If it
isn't obvious then I do, for whatever reason. Don't make it more
difficult than it is.


"Whatever" says a lot. Your perspective is that of a controller who thinks in
terms of trying to do the job right for eight hours, then split for a beer or
whatever. ;-)

The informed pilot perspective, however, is to act upon the premise of "the
least cost of being wrong" when confronted with an ambiguous situation,
perceived or real. It's called survival.

And, for you to presume I can see the aircraft on final disregards many
possibilities, including perhaps that the weather is 200 and 1/2.~

So you do want to make it harder than it is. When you are sitting there
at the end of the runway and there is an airplane on final, no matter
what the conditions, if I know you can see him I don't have to tell you
why I said to hold short. But if it is 200/ and a 1/2 and there's a
plane on a mile final then I will tell you why. Everything is based on
what you can or cannot see. It's also based on your equipment. If you
are an airliner or other aircraft with TCAS I can expand that area
because you can see the aircraft on your display.