No SID in clearance, fly it anyway?

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:30:38 -0500, "Robert Henry"
wrote:

That assumes there is a problem. The way it has been explained to me is
that the rules that apply for departing IFR at a non-towered field apply in
this case, and that operating under the understanding that terrain
separation services are available when departing a towered field (especially
a VFR-only one as in my case) is just a bad one.

I have read and reread this paragraph, and I must confess I don't
understand what you are saying, at least in the context of ATC and ODP's.

If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation. It doesn't matter
what field you are departing from.

Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

wrote:

Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

So are you saying that Center is giving you headings to fly just like a
tower would? I have never seen this.

Newps wrote:

wrote:

Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

So are you saying that Center is giving you headings to fly just like a
tower would? I have never seen this.

That's never happened to me. But, my experience with center clearances at non-tower
airport has been limited to mountainous area airports. They simply clear me via
airways and say report over XYZ VOR or ACMEE intersection/waypoint. It's up to me to
know I should fly the OPD. I've never had a problem with that but folks like the
USAF crew at KJAC did.

Having said all that, I've read here and on other aviation forums of pilots getting
heading assignments out of non-tower airports in the flatlands. Isn't there some
provision in the 7110.65 that permits that "open entering controlled airspace..." or
something to that effect?

wrote:


Having said all that, I've read here and on other aviation forums of pilots getting
heading assignments out of non-tower airports in the flatlands.

Doesn't matter if the airport is in the mountains or not you should not
ever get a heading at a nontowered airport.


Isn't there some
provision in the 7110.65 that permits that "open entering controlled airspace..." or
something to that effect?

Yes, you should receive a clearance that states "upon entering
controlled airspace fly heading xxx." Or "Enter controlled airspace
heading xxx."

"Newps" wrote in message
news:B2dqb.114069$Tr4.318941@attbi_s03...


wrote:


Having said all that, I've read here and on other aviation forums of
pilots getting
heading assignments out of non-tower airports in the flatlands.

Doesn't matter if the airport is in the mountains or not you should not
ever get a heading at a nontowered airport.


What about at a non-towered airport within a Class E surface area?

Chip, ZTL

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:




If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation. It doesn't matter
what field you are departing from.


On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

Nor would there be an ODP to fly!


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation. It doesn't matter
what field you are departing from.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

Nor would there be an ODP to fly!

True enough. But, Murphey's Law being what it is, some might conclude that the lack
of an ODP at a VFR airport means diverse departures are approved.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:24:08 -0800, wrote:



Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation. It doesn't matter
what field you are departing from.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

Nor would there be an ODP to fly!

True enough. But, Murphey's Law being what it is, some might conclude that the lack
of an ODP at a VFR airport means diverse departures are approved.

Well, then, they wouldn't be able to fly an ODP if there wasn't one there.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:24:08 -0800, wrote:



Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation. It doesn't matter
what field you are departing from.

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:02:30 -0800, wrote:


Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been evaluated
for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

Nor would there be an ODP to fly!

True enough. But, Murphey's Law being what it is, some might conclude that the lack
of an ODP at a VFR airport means diverse departures are approved.

Well, then, they wouldn't be able to fly an ODP if there wasn't one there.


I think you're missing my point. There are many IFR airports that have Part 97 IFR
takeoff minimums but no ODP because they are 40:1-clear in all directions once reaching
400 feet. That is the result of a survey by the feds. There aren't any such surveys or
takeoff minimums at VFR airports but some Part 91 pilots don't understand the distinction
since takeoff minimums are mandatory for them.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 00:19:39 -0800, wrote:

I think you're missing my point. There are many IFR airports that have Part 97 IFR
takeoff minimums but no ODP because they are 40:1-clear in all directions once reaching
400 feet. That is the result of a survey by the feds. There aren't any such surveys or
takeoff minimums at VFR airports but some Part 91 pilots don't understand the distinction
since takeoff minimums are mandatory for them.

That's a different point than what you wrote in response to my comment
about flying ODP's.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)