No SID in clearance, fly it anyway?

"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
The bottom line is that you have little way of knowing if the company
you choose to run your ATC will operate like a "good" company or a bad
one... so would you rather have a Government agency screw it up, which
is at least somewhat under the scrutiny of press and public, or a
private company screw it up, which can hide its shady dealings until
it's too late.

Looks like that scrutiny has been such an advantage til now.

One group that WILL NOT stand ofr incompetence is the consumers in a market.
Guess who beat the media and the government to to the punch on Enron, MCI,
etc.


[rest of naiveté snipped]

Tom S. wrote:

...

One group that WILL NOT stand ofr incompetence is the consumers in a market.
...



Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about
competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence
they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution
controls. I am not sure whether that qualifies as competence/efficiency.

I am not sure that consumers have that much power. They are forced to
operate in an existing infrastructure... infrastructure that is largely
the long-term result of corporate and government policy. There is no
easy way of knowing if it is the most efficient infrastructure or not.

Well, for what it's worth, I called the tower and asked about the
clearance. The tower supervisor I spoke to said they ALWAYS assign the
SID. If the clearance delivery guy didn't read me the SID, he goofed.
If he did but I just didn't hear it, I goofed. If I read it back
without the SID and he didn't correct me, he goofed. One way or
another, if I didn't have the SID written down, somebody goofed
somewhere.

I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it
just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble.

Roy Smith wrote:

Well, for what it's worth, I called the tower and asked about the
clearance. The tower supervisor I spoke to said they ALWAYS assign the
SID. If the clearance delivery guy didn't read me the SID, he goofed.
If he did but I just didn't hear it, I goofed. If I read it back
without the SID and he didn't correct me, he goofed. One way or
another, if I didn't have the SID written down, somebody goofed
somewhere.

I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it
just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble.

Moral: Oh so fragile is that 1930's-era AM VHF audio comm link.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:54:25 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

Well, for what it's worth, I called the tower and asked about the
clearance. The tower supervisor I spoke to said they ALWAYS assign the
SID. If the clearance delivery guy didn't read me the SID, he goofed.
If he did but I just didn't hear it, I goofed. If I read it back
without the SID and he didn't correct me, he goofed. One way or
another, if I didn't have the SID written down, somebody goofed
somewhere.

I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it
just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble.

And as of now, the "goof" has resulted in 175 messages in this thread!


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Roy Smith wrote:


I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it
just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble.

Actually it's pretty easy. Most facilities now have several days to
nearly a week of "tapes" on a hard drive, depending on how busy a
facility is. The voice data goes down on the hard drive with no gaps
for dead air. So if you were to call up and provide a time it would be
a simple matter of a few mouse clicks. Plus effective November 1st
all tapes are now being kept for 45 days instead of 15.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:2rEqb.131847$HS4.1048024@attbi_s01...


Roy Smith wrote:


I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it
just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble.

Actually it's pretty easy. Most facilities now have several days to
nearly a week of "tapes" on a hard drive, depending on how busy a
facility is. The voice data goes down on the hard drive with no gaps
for dead air. So if you were to call up and provide a time it would be
a simple matter of a few mouse clicks. Plus effective November 1st
all tapes are now being kept for 45 days instead of 15.


A speaker from PCT mentioned the hard drive use for storing the comm. It's
nice to know that it's more prevalent than just being in the newest of
facilities.

"Icebound" wrote in message
. rogers.com...
Tom S. wrote:

...

One group that WILL NOT stand ofr incompetence is the consumers in a
market.
...



Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about
competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence
they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution
controls. I am not sure whether that qualifies as competence/efficiency.

And I suppose YOU do make wise choices?


I am not sure that consumers have that much power. They are forced to
operate in an existing infrastructure... infrastructure that is largely
the long-term result of corporate and government policy.

Welcome to reality and prosperity.

There is no
easy way of knowing if it is the most efficient infrastructure or not.

Welcome to reality.

"Icebound" wrote in message

Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about
competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence
they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution
controls.

That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't
a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc
we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws.

Newps wrote:



"Icebound" wrote in message


Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about
competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence
they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution
controls.


That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't
a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc
we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws.


Those things didn't come from consumers. They came grudgingly at the
initiative of slightly progressive politicians under pressure from
activists and scientists.

When those same wage-earners become Consumers, they continue to buy from
certain large, dominant chains who have tons of suppliers in the
"emerging-economy" countries with questionable human rights and
environmental records and low wages, but thats a whole other NG.







--
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the
courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
--- Serenity Prayer