No SID in clearance, fly it anyway?

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 00:19:39 -0800, wrote:

I think you're missing my point. There are many IFR airports that have Part 97 IFR
takeoff minimums but no ODP because they are 40:1-clear in all directions once reaching
400 feet. That is the result of a survey by the feds. There aren't any such surveys or
takeoff minimums at VFR airports but some Part 91 pilots don't understand the distinction
since takeoff minimums are mandatory for them.

That's a different point than what you wrote in response to my comment
about flying ODP's.



It is? Sounds like one, or perhaps both of us, is confused.

I understood you to say that a VFR airport wouldn't have an OPD. True enough. But, many IFR
airports don't have ODPs either. So, the existence of absense of an OPD is not the real clue;
takeoff minimums or lack thereof is the more important clue.

On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:57:50 -0800, wrote:

It is? Sounds like one, or perhaps both of us, is confused.

I understood you to say that a VFR airport wouldn't have an OPD. True enough. But, many IFR
airports don't have ODPs either. So, the existence of absense of an OPD is not the real clue;
takeoff minimums or lack thereof is the more important clue.

My role in this discussion has been to point out that ODP's are safe, and
that ATC must protect the ODP routing for any IFR departure.

In that context, your responses, although accurate, did not relate in my
opinion.

RR: If you fly an ODP, you will have terrain separation.

AP: Assuming it's an IFR airport. If not, then the airspace has not been
evaluated for takeoff minimums and 40:1 surfaces.

RR: Nor would there be an ODP to fly

etc.

Your statement is related to the more general problem of departing in IMC,
but not related to the point that ODP's will provide terrain separation and
should be protected by ATC. ODP's are not the only method of safely
departing an airport in IMC. The method a pilot chooses to use depends on
many variables, including whether or not there is a SIAP; weather; climb
rate of his a/c; rules under which he is flying; company policies; etc.

I don't disagree with anything you've written. And if you had not written
it apparently in response to my statement that flying an ODP provides
terrain separation, we would not even be having this discussion g.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)