How common are aircraft partnerships compared to outright ownerships?

xyzzy wrote:

5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.

This is one of my favorite "why a club" answers. The other related answer
(which may not apply to your club) is that in a club has different types of
aircraft, there's some diversity in your flying.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

xyzzy wrote:


5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.


This is one of my favorite "why a club" answers. The other related answer
(which may not apply to your club) is that in a club has different types of
aircraft, there's some diversity in your flying.


We also have 152's, which are such low-end trainers that hardly any
non-student pilots fly them, and Mooneys, and there are some members
that fly both Warriors and Mooneys. Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.

We're having that discussion now, looks like the club board has decided
to sell two of the four Warriors and buy 2 172's. I personally don't
like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both types
(which is an added expense and hassle), everyone's fleet availability
just got cut in half -- I actually argue worse than in half because
having one other plane of a type is much worse than having three others
of the type when you show up for your instrument lesson and find the NAV
radio on the plane you reserved is squawked. Others like the diversity
of flying more, and quite frankly I think some members just like
shopping for airplanes. Looks like the diversity/shopping crowd has won
the argument. That's why the "you don't control your own fate"
disadvantage has recently been added to my list of pros and cons for
club vs. owning.

xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't
like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both types
(which is an added expense and hassle),

If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),


If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.

True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club SOP's
agree?

xyzzy wrote:
Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),



If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.


True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club SOP's
agree?

Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),




If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.



True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club
SOP's agree?


Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

We require a "club annual" which is basically a BFR, every year. Plus
between annuals you have to have a certain number of flight hours and
landings within six months to stay current. It's not a real high
number, and it has never been a factor for me. It may sound onerous,
but it helps us get a good insurance policy, which is hard for clubs to do.

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do
a one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it
was an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from
one to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club
may need to require more.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do a
one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it was
an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from one
to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club may
need to require more.



If you are current in a Warrior and anybody REQUIRES 3-5 hours checkout in a
Skyhawk they are just making money off you.

Newps wrote:


xyzzy wrote:
Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),



If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.


True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club SOP's
agree?

Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

Where I rent has their own definition of current based on their insurance
policy.

To be "current" for insurance and to be allowed to fly solo you have to
have flown in the last 60 days in a particular aircraft type or higher
similar type. Time in a 172RG or 182 counts for a 172 but not for
Pipers for example.

Once around the pattern is sufficient to check off the square.

If you are not "current" by these standards it is around the pattern at
least once with a CFI (or more if you hose up).

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:


xyzzy wrote:
Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),



If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.


True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club
SOP's
agree?

Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

Where I rent has their own definition of current based on their insurance
policy.

To be "current" for insurance and to be allowed to fly solo you have to
have flown in the last 60 days in a particular aircraft type or higher
similar type. Time in a 172RG or 182 counts for a 172 but not for
Pipers for example.

Once around the pattern is sufficient to check off the square.

If you are not "current" by these standards it is around the pattern at
least once with a CFI (or more if you hose up).

Which is completely sensible.

xyzzy wrote:

Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.

Hmm. My ideal club would have little "sports" airplanes (I'd put a super
decathalon in that set, for example) and larger "travel" airplanes (ie. a
182 or 206, for example). Esp. with families, a six-seater looks *very*
attractive.

We're having that discussion now, looks like the club board has decided
to sell two of the four Warriors and buy 2 172's.

That's not really the kind of diversity that would excite me. What's the
point?

- Andrew