How common are aircraft partnerships compared to outright ownerships?

Andrew Gideon wrote:

xyzzy wrote:


Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.


Hmm. My ideal club would have little "sports" airplanes (I'd put a super
decathalon in that set, for example) and larger "travel" airplanes (ie. a
182 or 206, for example). Esp. with families, a six-seater looks *very*
attractive.


We're having that discussion now, looks like the club board has decided
to sell two of the four Warriors and buy 2 172's.


That's not really the kind of diversity that would excite me. What's the
point?

I think it's actually a long-term plan to replace all the Warriors with
172's, because the Warriors are aging and the club wants newer (but not
brand new) planes, but the vintage the club wants was when Piper was
bankrupt and/or struggling so there aren't many Warriors of the desired
age to choose from, but there are plenty of 172s.

xyzzy wrote:

I think it's actually a long-term plan to replace all the Warriors with
172's

Ah. That makes sense then, even if it's not a diversity issue.

- Andrew

xyzzy wrote:

I think it's actually a long-term plan to replace all the Warriors with
172's, because the Warriors are aging and the club wants newer (but not
brand new) planes, but the vintage the club wants was when Piper was
bankrupt and/or struggling so there aren't many Warriors of the desired
age to choose from, but there are plenty of 172s.

xyzzy, for my and Gig's benefit, could you clarify the above? Is your
club considering the fuel-injected C172 models made in 1997 or later
(sorry, I incorrectly thought 1998 was the year the first 172 was delivered
after Cessna's resumption of production)?

--
Peter
























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Peter R. wrote:
xyzzy wrote:


I think it's actually a long-term plan to replace all the Warriors with
172's, because the Warriors are aging and the club wants newer (but not
brand new) planes, but the vintage the club wants was when Piper was
bankrupt and/or struggling so there aren't many Warriors of the desired
age to choose from, but there are plenty of 172s.


xyzzy, for my and Gig's benefit, could you clarify the above? Is your
club considering the fuel-injected C172 models made in 1997 or later
(sorry, I incorrectly thought 1998 was the year the first 172 was delivered
after Cessna's resumption of production)?


Last I heard they were shopping for 172 SP's, 2000ish vintage.

The current fleet of warriors are -161's, 1978-1982 vintage, with DME,
GX60 GPS, and coupled autopilot.

A quick check of controller.com shows asking prices in the 110-120K
range for the 172's in that age range, with a couple of dozen listed for
sale. Equivalent Warriors are about 10K more and there are only 3 of
them listed.

xyzzy wrote:

Last I heard they were shopping for 172 SP's, 2000ish vintage.

Thanks.

--
Peter
























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"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Peter R. wrote:
xyzzy wrote:


Last I heard they were shopping for 172 SP's, 2000ish vintage.



That changes everything. Cessna really should have changed the name or
number on the plane if they are going to make the kind of changes they did.

("xyzzy" wrote)
5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.

We also have 152's, which are such low-end trainers that hardly any
non-student pilots fly them, and Mooneys, and there are some members
that fly both Warriors and Mooneys. Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.


200+ members - 4 wariors. Hmm, something's not right.

Now I see 152's and Monneys. Ahhh, better :-)

Got a club link?


Montblack

Montblack wrote:

("xyzzy" wrote)

5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.


We also have 152's, which are such low-end trainers that hardly any
non-student pilots fly them, and Mooneys, and there are some members
that fly both Warriors and Mooneys. Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.



200+ members - 4 wariors. Hmm, something's not right.

Not all members are as active as other members.


Now I see 152's and Monneys. Ahhh, better :-)

Got a club link?


http://www.wingsofcarolina.org

(rates haven't been updated, they went up in June, Warrior is now $80,
Mooney is now $120, not sure what the 152's are now).

("xyzzy" wrote)
http://www.wingsofcarolina.org

(rates haven't been updated, they went up in June, Warrior is now $80,
Mooney is now $120, not sure what the 152's are now).


(From your link)
"To join the Club, a $100 application fee and a $300 refundable security
deposit are required, along with the first month dues of $45. (Security
deposits vary with aircraft type, see rates table for exact amount.)
Aircraft charges, priced only to recover the Club's costs, are based on the
time the engine is running and include fuel and oil. Instructors are paid
separately."

Looks like you only pay 100 dollars to join - then pay $45 per month. Cessna
152 is $58 wet. Insurance is included.

Flying deposits of $300, $600, $1,200 look to cover (approx) 5, 7.5, or 10
hours depending on plane type.

I see nice pads in the pics of the planes. Hangars? Are they in the works?


Montblack

Montblack wrote:

("xyzzy" wrote)

http://www.wingsofcarolina.org

(rates haven't been updated, they went up in June, Warrior is now $80,
Mooney is now $120, not sure what the 152's are now).



(From your link)
"To join the Club, a $100 application fee and a $300 refundable security
deposit are required, along with the first month dues of $45. (Security
deposits vary with aircraft type, see rates table for exact amount.)
Aircraft charges, priced only to recover the Club's costs, are based on
the time the engine is running and include fuel and oil. Instructors are
paid separately."

Looks like you only pay 100 dollars to join - then pay $45 per month.
Cessna 152 is $58 wet. Insurance is included.

Flying deposits of $300, $600, $1,200 look to cover (approx) 5, 7.5, or
10 hours depending on plane type.

The deposits are actually equity shares in the club. You can't apply
them to flying time. They are refundable upon resignation.

I see nice pads in the pics of the planes. Hangars? Are they in the works?

In 2001 the club moved from IGX to TTA. The pics on the pads were taken
at IGX, before the move. At TTA we have "our own" ramp (it's actually a
public ramp but 99% of the time only we use it) with a clubhouse that
includes a maintanence hangar, flight planning room, classroom, offices,
etc. If you look at the aerial picture of TTA at the bottom of the home
page, the ramp and building closest to the photographer (at the arrival
end of rwy 3) are ours.