How common are aircraft partnerships compared to outright ownerships?

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),


If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.

True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club SOP's
agree?

xyzzy wrote:
Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),



If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.


True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club SOP's
agree?

Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:

Newps wrote:



xyzzy wrote:
I personally don't

like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both
types (which is an added expense and hassle),




If you can figure out how to open the door you are current in a 172.



True, but will the insurance company and the people who write club
SOP's agree?


Then you better define current, because a 172 only requires a BFR. I
have never seen an insurance policy be more restrictive than that for a
172. A flying club might have a one year currency policy, any more than
that is just money grubbing.

We require a "club annual" which is basically a BFR, every year. Plus
between annuals you have to have a certain number of flight hours and
landings within six months to stay current. It's not a real high
number, and it has never been a factor for me. It may sound onerous,
but it helps us get a good insurance policy, which is hard for clubs to do.

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do
a one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it
was an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from
one to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club
may need to require more.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do a
one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it was
an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from one
to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club may
need to require more.



If you are current in a Warrior and anybody REQUIRES 3-5 hours checkout in a
Skyhawk they are just making money off you.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...

Newps wrote:

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do a
one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it was
an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from one
to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club may
need to require more.




If you are current in a Warrior and anybody REQUIRES 3-5 hours checkout in a
Skyhawk they are just making money off you.



I'm just guessing on the 3-5 hours, they haven't set the requirements
yet. That's what a Warrior checkout for a new member is. Skyhawk
checkout may be less onerous, but it will be required. I'm pretty sure
the insurance will demand it, no matter how many pilots know that the
transition is in fact easy.

Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do a
one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it was
an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from one
to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club may
need to require more.



If you are current in a Warrior and anybody REQUIRES 3-5 hours checkout in a
Skyhawk they are just making money off you.

I think the pertinent question is what model 172 requires this 3-5 hour
checkout?

A fuel injected 172 does not require priming on a normal day. Ever sit and
watch unfamiliar pilots try to start a 172SP? Prime, grind, grind, grind,
grind pause grind, grind, grind, grind pause grind, grind, grind.

How many seconds should a 172's starter be engaged before a cool-down time
is needed? How many minutes should one wait to attempt a restart?
Mixture lever in or out when attempting to start?

The flight school where I trained actually had a CFII (not from that
school) recently get "stuck" at a nearby airport because he could not start
a 2003 C172SP equipped with a new battery, new starter, and full fuel. He
killed the battery trying to start it! Upon speaking to the flight school
manager, he claimed that the aircraft and maintenance were to fault, not
him. The flight school sent maintenance and a CFII to the airport to
recharge the battery and rescue this person (who, somehow convinced the
school he didn't need a complete checkout). The aircraft fired right up.

What about the new 172s equipped with Garmin G1000 flight displays that are
beginning to appear at US flight schools? You will need probably a
minimum of 10 hours of check-out time to fly one of those.

I have about 450 hours in a C172SP and I would probably need a couple of
hours of instruction/flying just to become familiar with carb heat usage if
I hypothetically needed to rent an older C172 model.

--
Peter
























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"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

Besides currency, there's initial checkout. I.e, the need for several
dozen members who are current and checked out in Warriors, to have to do
a
one-time club checkout in the 172 (most likely a written quiz and 3-5
hours of dual) in order to get back the availability they had when it
was
an all-Warrior fleet. You may think it's trivial to transition from one
to the other, and I would agree, but for insurance purposes the club may
need to require more.



If you are current in a Warrior and anybody REQUIRES 3-5 hours checkout
in a
Skyhawk they are just making money off you.

I think the pertinent question is what model 172 requires this 3-5 hour
checkout?

A fuel injected 172 does not require priming on a normal day. Ever sit
and
watch unfamiliar pilots try to start a 172SP? Prime, grind, grind,
grind,
grind pause grind, grind, grind, grind pause grind, grind, grind.

How many seconds should a 172's starter be engaged before a cool-down time
is needed? How many minutes should one wait to attempt a restart?
Mixture lever in or out when attempting to start?

The flight school where I trained actually had a CFII (not from that
school) recently get "stuck" at a nearby airport because he could not
start
a 2003 C172SP equipped with a new battery, new starter, and full fuel. He
killed the battery trying to start it! Upon speaking to the flight
school
manager, he claimed that the aircraft and maintenance were to fault, not
him. The flight school sent maintenance and a CFII to the airport to
recharge the battery and rescue this person (who, somehow convinced the
school he didn't need a complete checkout). The aircraft fired right up.

What about the new 172s equipped with Garmin G1000 flight displays that
are
beginning to appear at US flight schools? You will need probably a
minimum of 10 hours of check-out time to fly one of those.

I have about 450 hours in a C172SP and I would probably need a couple of
hours of instruction/flying just to become familiar with carb heat usage
if
I hypothetically needed to rent an older C172 model.



Since the OP did say they were buying older model 172's the G1000 is a none
issue as far as this thread is concerned. Both of the other items your
mentioned could easily be covered in a pilot orientation meeting followed a
1 hour MAX check ride. In that case if the check pilot saw that the checkee
had a problem it would be easy have them not sign off and give the further
instruction as needed.

And Peter if it would really take you a couple of hours of flight time to
figure out how to use the carb heat I have to ask... How long did it take
you to solo?

Gig 601XL Builder wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

Since the OP did say they were buying older model 172's the G1000 is a none
issue as far as this thread is concerned.

OK, I got a bit carried away there.

Both of the other items your
mentioned could easily be covered in a pilot orientation meeting followed a
1 hour MAX check ride.

Are you are saying that a pilot orientation meeting and 1 hour MAX is all
that is needed to transition from a Warrier most likely equipped with basic
avionics and no AP to a fuel injected C172SP equipped with an autopilot and
IFR GPS? I totally disagree.

However, if you remind me of your flight instruction qualifications and how
many students you have successfully transitioned from a Warrier to a C172SP
within this one hour familiarity flight, then I will concede since my
opinion is only based on my familiarity with this model Skyhawk.

And Peter if it would really take you a couple of hours of flight time to
figure out how to use the carb heat I have to ask... How long did it take
you to solo?

LOL! What's in your pants is bigger than mine? Is there some correlation
between number of hours to solo and the aptitude, skills, and proficiency
of a pilot post-solo?

My point was that given my unfamiliarity with something that has caused a
lot of pilots grief (based on the high number of suspected carb ice
incidents and accidents in the NTSB reports), I certainly recognize my
limitations and would want to be sure I completely understood the usage of
carb heat before launching on an X/C flight in IMC with my family.

But, to answer your question, it took 16 hours for me to solo.

--
Peter























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Peter R. wrote:

I have about 450 hours in a C172SP and I would probably need a couple of
hours of instruction/flying just to become familiar with carb heat usage if
I hypothetically needed to rent an older C172 model.

Pull out the carb heat below the green arc. Push it in aboove the green
arc. There. You're checked out.

Newps wrote:

Peter R. wrote:

I have about 450 hours in a C172SP and I would probably need a couple of
hours of instruction/flying just to become familiar with carb heat usage if
I hypothetically needed to rent an older C172 model.

Pull out the carb heat below the green arc. Push it in aboove the green
arc. There. You're checked out.

Thanks. If it is really that easy, then why are there so many NTSB
accident reports that list carb icing as a contributory cause?

--
Peter
























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