C172 Flaps up or 10 degrees for takeoff

Greg Farris wrote:
There is another reason to use 10° flaps - training.
Many students are not learning to fly a 172, but using a 172 to learn to fly
airplanes. If you are anticipating transitioning up ASAP (as in career
oriented students) it's good to get into the habit, because your next
airplane may require flaps on takeoff, and the one after that certainly will.

Cherokee Six calls for minimum 10-degrees flaps for all takeoffs.
If you try a no-flaps takeoff, your takeoff roll is significantly longer.

john smith wrote:
Greg Farris wrote:
There is another reason to use 10? flaps - training.
Many students are not learning to fly a 172, but using a 172 to learn to fly
airplanes. If you are anticipating transitioning up ASAP (as in career
oriented students) it's good to get into the habit, because your next
airplane may require flaps on takeoff, and the one after that certainly will.

Cherokee Six calls for minimum 10-degrees flaps for all takeoffs.
If you try a no-flaps takeoff, your takeoff roll is significantly longer.

All correctly stated by each... however, I suggest it is better to
"learn to fly the current aircraft proficiently in the current weather
and environment" before "attempting to learn to fly the next
aircraft".

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 231 Young Eagles!

War Story

In late 1949/early 1950 I had a P-80A on cross country headed east,
can't remember where. This early version of the P-80 had the small
engine in it and the under slung tip tanks.

It was middle of summer and I stopped at Biggs AFB (El Paso) to
refuel. Full internal and full tips.

Taxied out for a TO on R/W 21 (over 13K feet long). R/W 21 had a cross
R/W about 4K down it. I released brakes and accelerated very slowly in
the heat and altitude. When I hit the cross R/W there was a slight
bump that threw me in the air and I caught it. Wasn't accelerating
very fast so pulled the gear (flaps were still down 30 degrees) to
reduce drag.

Guess what, no climb (and no gear to land on remaining R/W). R/W
heading was over Fort Bliss and I went over it about 5 feet above the
TV antennas on the barracks (could count the elements on them) and
just missed the flag pole.

Next obstacle was the hill west of El Paso toward which I was pointed
with a snow balls chance in hell of clearing.

Used some rudder and gently skidded the nose toward the south enough
to miss the hill.

Was then over Mexico and dodging cactus and blowing sage brush.
Started milking flaps up. Would get 25 or so feet altitude and retract
flaps 2-3 degrees and when I sank would rotate the nose up to keep
from hitting ground and again fly in ground effect.

After about 20 miles into Mexico I got the flaps up and was able to
gain a little airspeed which let me climb and accelerate.

1. I was a dam good pilot in those days.
2. I was also lucky as hell which we always said was the most
important aspect of flying.

On occasion, I still wake up and see in gory color that flight in high
density altitude and temp ( Sure made a believer out of me.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````


On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:40:49 -0000, wrote:

john smith wrote:
Greg Farris wrote:
There is another reason to use 10? flaps - training.
Many students are not learning to fly a 172, but using a 172 to learn to fly
airplanes. If you are anticipating transitioning up ASAP (as in career
oriented students) it's good to get into the habit, because your next
airplane may require flaps on takeoff, and the one after that certainly will.

Cherokee Six calls for minimum 10-degrees flaps for all takeoffs.
If you try a no-flaps takeoff, your takeoff roll is significantly longer.

All correctly stated by each... however, I suggest it is better to
"learn to fly the current aircraft proficiently in the current weather
and environment" before "attempting to learn to fly the next
aircraft".

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

Big John wrote:
[snip]
Taxied out for a TO on R/W 21 (over 13K feet long). R/W 21 had a cross
R/W about 4K down it. I released brakes and accelerated very slowly in
the heat and altitude. When I hit the cross R/W there was a slight
bump that threw me in the air and I caught it. Wasn't accelerating
very fast so pulled the gear (flaps were still down 30 degrees) to
reduce drag.

Guess what, no climb (and no gear to land on remaining R/W). R/W
heading was over Fort Bliss and I went over it about 5 feet above the
TV antennas on the barracks (could count the elements on them) and
just missed the flag pole.

Next obstacle was the hill west of El Paso toward which I was pointed
with a snow balls chance in hell of clearing.

Used some rudder and gently skidded the nose toward the south enough
to miss the hill.

Was then over Mexico and dodging cactus and blowing sage brush.
Started milking flaps up. Would get 25 or so feet altitude and retract
flaps 2-3 degrees and when I sank would rotate the nose up to keep
from hitting ground and again fly in ground effect.

After about 20 miles into Mexico I got the flaps up and was able to
gain a little airspeed which let me climb and accelerate.
[snip]

Ok, I never know whether to believe such stories or not. Here's a
similar one I liked so much that I posted it on my blog:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/clu...ter/25412.html

-C.