At last, the truth...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qudMe.253023$x96.6077@attbi_s72...
Which begs the question: How can you be married to someone with whom you
can't share the passion for flight?

Why does it beg the question? Lots of people have spouses who don't share
every one of their passions (including the passion of flying), and they have
long and happy marriages too.

As usual, you continue to make the mistake of thinking that everyone is just
like you, and should live their lives just like you live yours. IMHO, this
is what's wrong with your political outlook, and it's what's wrong with your
opinions about who is or is not a pilot and why.

It's true, there's a lot of similarities from one human being to another.
But there are numerous differences as well, some quite dramatic. And they
are simply differences; not good, not bad, just different.

Pete

As usual, you continue to make the mistake of thinking that everyone is
just like you, and should live their lives just like you live yours.
IMHO, this is what's wrong with your political outlook, and it's what's
wrong with your opinions about who is or is not a pilot and why.

Well, Pete, I see a lot of misery and scary things in the world today -- and
(although I have my ups and downs) I am generally living a very enjoyable
life, and having a great time doing it. I would like to be able to share
my love of aviation, and Mary and I do everything possible to see that
people who stay at our inn get the chance to go for a ride in a small plane.
It's a money-losing proposition, but it's what we are all about.

The world could do a lot worse than to "live lives just like mine"...

I am also constantly searching for ways to expand GA for the entirely
selfish reason that if we don't grow it, it will continue to wither. I've
got maybe 20 good years of flying left in me, and I want to make sure that
I've got a place to keep my plane, and some airports to land at. If we
can figure out why so many people start -- and quit -- pilot training,
perhaps we can counter the downward trend somehow?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The world could do a lot worse than to "live lives just like mine"...

.... but they would have to "be just like you" in order to enjoy "lives
just like yours". A lot of people very different from you enjoy lives
very different from yours, lives you could not countenance.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The world could do a lot worse than to "live lives just like mine"...

... but they would have to "be just like you" in order to enjoy "lives
just like yours". A lot of people very different from you enjoy lives
very different from yours, lives you could not countenance.

Well, so long as they aren't hurting others, I say let 'em enjoy life...

We only get one chance at this life, as far as I can tell, so we might as
well have a good time while we're here!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Well, so long as they aren't hurting others, I say let 'em enjoy life...

Right. And that life doesn't include flying.

It's not that flying is "no fun", it'a that it's "no fun for them" - the
activity is not a good match for the individual. And we are all
individuals. It's not like flying is so wondeful in and of itself that
everyone should love it (and it's incomprehensible why people don't) but
rather, that, just like with women, the one I love may not be a good
match for you, and v.v.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

The world could do a lot worse than to "live lives just like mine"...

... but they would have to "be just like you" in order to enjoy "lives
just like yours".

Well, yes and no.

I've read enough of Jay's writing to know that he and I are quite different,
and that we see a great deal of the world in quite distinct ways.

But I too was smitten by flight after being married for a number of years.
And sharing our passions is just something my wife and I do. So she
started lessons too, ceased only because of pregnancy. Now that that's
done, she'll shortly be back.

And even absent her own certificate, she loves flying with me (esp. if we're
doing something fun like lunching in Nantucket or walking on the beach in
Cape May or Ocean City ... ). And we're already talking about a "flying
vacation" when the youngest is sufficiently old.

Like Jay and his wife, we work together and work a fair number of hours
(esp. now, since we were down an employee for a few months and are only
just recovering).

So one doesn't need to be "just like" Jay to live a life like that. One
merely needs to set up a life, and a life partner, that works like that.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...]
So one doesn't need to be "just like" Jay to live a life like that.

No, I think Jose has it right.

While there are similarities between your life and Jay's, I have no doubt
there are significant differences too. For you to enjoy EVERY aspect of
Jay's life in the same way that Jay does, you WOULD have to be *just like*
Jay.

One merely needs to set up a life, and a life partner, that works like
that.

Most people do not have the absolute degree of choice that is implied in
such a misleadingly simple statement. Life is not so simple, and for most
of us who still have a deeply abiding passion for aviation, there are other
unrelated aspects of our lives that are also important. One does not
"merely...set up a life, and a life partner". Those things are not 100%
subject to a person's whim, nor can they necessarily be centered completely
around aviation (or any other one pursuit).

For anyone who does get such an aviation-oriented life, and is still happy
with all other aspects, that's great. But it doesn't always work out that
way. I don't have to think very hard to recall friends who "picked" a
spouse based on a single criteria, only to discover that they were
incompatible in a number of other ways.

My wife is only marginally interested in aviation (and yes, I suppose that's
part of the reason it's hard for me to remain involved), but there are a
wide variety of other aspects of our lives that are aligned extremely well.
I wouldn't trade her for anything, but even if I were so inclined, I
certainly wouldn't trade her for someone else knowing only that that other
person had the same passion for aviation that I do. There are too many
other things that could go wrong.

Perhaps for the rare person for whom aviation is literally THE only thing
they care about, nothing else might matter. For the rest of us, we do care
about things other than aviation, and life is a great (and I mean that in
the best way) compromise.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

For anyone who does get such an aviation-oriented life, and is still happy
with all other aspects, that's great.Â*Â*ButÂ*itÂ*doesn'tÂ*alwaysÂ*workÂ*outÂ*tha t
way.Â*Â*IÂ*don'tÂ*haveÂ*toÂ*thinkÂ*veryÂ*hardÂ*to *recallÂ*friendsÂ*whoÂ*"picked"Â*a
spouse based on a single criteria, only to discover that they were
incompatible in a number of other ways.

I didn't mean to imply "a single criteria". We work together, so obviously
we've other common interests. More, we're sufficiently compatible so that
we *can* work together.

To me, this is natural. While my Mother didn't have a "career" outside of
herding us during my youth, I'd a set of Grandparents that had a thriving
business together at that time.

Yet we get a great many comments from visitors to our office that would
appear to indicate otherwise. Many would never work with a spouse. Until
I became used to this, it left me puzzled.

So I'm not recommending a "single issue marriage". Rather, I'm recommending
an "all issue marriage".

I apologize for being unclear.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...]
So I'm not recommending a "single issue marriage". Rather, I'm
recommending
an "all issue marriage".

I still feel that an "all issue marriage" is not a practical expectation.
It's not that it never happens, but it's an exceedingly rare situation.

Entire books can be (and have been) written on the topic of a successful
marriage, and I won't try to cover that very off-topic ground here. Suffice
to say, there are some things that are VERY important to a successful
marriage, but sharing each other's personal interests 100% isn't one of
them.

Pete

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
[snip] If we can figure out why so many people start --
and quit -- pilot training, perhaps we can counter the
downward trend somehow?

Jay, your hotel and other efforts to keep and promote interest are
commendable and more advantageous to GA than trying to encourage
everyone who quits pilot training to keep going. IMO, *some* people who
were encouraged to keep going when they should have stopped end up doing
more harm to GA than those who know themselves well enough to decide
it's not for them.

Having worked at a flight school, IMO not everyone who begins flight
training *should* see it through. SOMETIMES, it is a blessing when a
customer announces that they have decided to quit. CFIs/Flight schools
face a dilemma when a customer shows up for all their lessons but isn't
doing the studying (despite painful ground sessions), isn't making any
progress, or isn't safe regardless of how hard the CFI has worked to
instill that. What do they do in that case? They (1) refer the customer
to another CFI or to another school (pass the buck); (2) they just keep
on keepin' on, milking the customer of thousands of dollars and building
a logbook with tons of dual and no license; or the most difficult, (3)
THEY suggest that the customer consider that perhaps they have chosen
the wrong activity. We've all seen/known/heard of instances where a CFI
or the school SHOULD have taken that stand but didn't.

So JMO, but while it's a shame when an eager, motivated student who got
hooked up with the wrong CFI or school quits, I think some who quit have
made the right decision and that it should be left at that.

Pilot training probably has more unique elements than most other
activities for which people take lessons and test for licenses; BUT one
common element in *all* forms of training is that there will always be
some people who quit.