Plane down on Vail Pass

Blanche wrote:

Mike Rapoport wrote:
Those are pictures of flying well over the terrain and quite a distance from
the mountains, they do not really depict "mountain flying"

So -- can we agree on a definition of "mountain flying" before we
start getting snotty?

Perhaps mountain flying is where you have minimal terrain separation.
Not my idea of smart if you encounter a downdraft due to mountain wave
action...which I have.

Would you say that the pilot who impacted mountainous terrain in the
Vail Pass area was mountain flying?

Who would you rather fly with....him or me?

Ron Lee

Ron Lee wrote:



Perhaps mountain flying is where you have minimal terrain separation.

Yes. You are flying in the valleys, below the tops of the ridges.


Not my idea of smart if you encounter a downdraft due to mountain wave
action...which I have.

Well that's the skill level you need to attain. It's not safe to fly in
the mountains all the time. On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.



Would you say that the pilot who impacted mountainous terrain in the
Vail Pass area was mountain flying?

I don't know what his altitude was when he had whatever problem he had.
He ended up in the mountains, I don't know where he started.



Who would you rather fly with....him or me?

Neither. He crashed and you avoid the mountains like they will reach up
and grab you.

"Newps" wrote

On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.

What was that noise I just heard?

Oh, never mind. It was just my BS detector going off.

Mountain waves can be present at any time of the day, when the wind
conditions are right. Remind me not to take any mountain flying lessons
from you.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Newps" wrote

On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.

What was that noise I just heard?

Oh, never mind. It was just my BS detector going off.

Yeah...you do BS consistently. Full of it as always.


Mountain waves can be present at any time of the day, when the wind
conditions are right. Remind me not to take any mountain flying lessons
from you.

And maybe if you can't comprehend written context, lessons would be
worthless taken from anyone.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Newps" wrote

On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.

What was that noise I just heard?

Oh, never mind. It was just my BS detector going off.

Mountain waves can be present at any time of the day, when the wind
conditions are right. Remind me not to take any mountain flying lessons
from you.
--
Jim in NC


Since you totally missed his point, perhaps you do need to take some
instruction.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

Since you totally missed his point, perhaps you do need to take some
instruction.

What point was it that I missed? Are you telling me that mountain wave
activity is not present early in the morning?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

Since you totally missed his point, perhaps you do need to take some
instruction.

What point was it that I missed? Are you telling me that mountain wave
activity is not present early in the morning?
--
Jim in NC



No, it can be present anytime. However the time-of-day issues that Newps
brought up are more relevent 99% of the time. While it is possible for an
airplane to crash into a ridge while flying upwind because of a wave, I
don't think that I have ever heard of it happening. By the time mountain
waves are a real issue the wind is usually screaming. Perhaps we could add
"don't fly if the ridgetop winds are over XXkts to Newps' advice to fly in
the mountains. What Newps said is what 99% of mountain flying instructore
would have said.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

While it is possible for an
airplane to crash into a ridge while flying upwind because of a wave, I
don't think that I have ever heard of it happening.

I never saw anyone say anything about upwind or downwind in this thread, did
you?

While downdrafts due to thermals are a possibility, I can't imagine anyone
flying close enough to a ridge to not be able to get away from it's
"clutches", and flying into a ridge because of them. Flying early is
important for comfort, but beyond that, I don't see the relevance. All that
is left is wave activity, it seemed to me.

Or I could be wrong, then "nevermind."
--
Jim in NC

Newps wrote:

Well that's the skill level you need to attain. It's not safe to fly in
the mountains all the time. On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.

I guess the mountain wave downdraft I encountered around 830 AM was my
imagination.

Ron Lee

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
Newps wrote:

Well that's the skill level you need to attain. It's not safe to fly in
the mountains all the time. On clear sunny days after about 11 am it
gets too turbulent to fly in the mountains, you run into those
downdrafts you talk about. Get up early and you can fly over the
mounatin passes at a few hundred feet agl as easily as you fly over
anywhere else.

I guess the mountain wave downdraft I encountered around 830 AM was my
imagination.

It must have been since he said it ALWAYS happens the way he inferred.