Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

you wrote: "We need to put the public back into our local public
airports. After 9/11, people are much shyer about coming onto airport
property."

Actually, they're not so much shy as intimidated by security guards who
treat everyone at the gates as terrorists. The casual observer in most
cases can't even stand outside the fence and watch landings and
take-offs.

Not much to applaud there.

AJ

"John Doe" wrote:
This industry needs a major investment to retire
all planes older than 20 years old and get some
new metal on the ramp.

Tell it to the insurance companies.

Except there are lots of airports that don't have gates or fences or
anything. They still are shy about coming on the property. Why?

For the same reason I don't walk onto someone elses property, I wasn't
invited.

Let's invite them. Specifcally targeting the younger crowd. An Open
House at the nation's airports, advertising fly-in's to more than just
other pilots, etc.

It may already be like this in other areas of the country. Just not in
mine.

Flight training is fairly hard work. That is, each flight (and the
study to prepare for the flight) is physically and mentally tiring,
even exhausting. This actually appeals to a few geeks who like the
challenge, but the majority of people will be shocked at the work
required. This is very unlike high school and even college where you
can coast by most courses. Furthermore in school there is only
abstract feedback, a score on an exam or term paper. In an airplane
you get real feedback very quickly when you screw up.

Even today I remember the strange feeling around my first solo,
realizing that I couldn't just stop driving to rescue myself; if I
felt suddenly afraid or ill I would have to work several more minutes
to get myself safely to the ground.

All of this is very foreign to the young generation coming of age and
wealth. They're used to TV dramas where everything is resolved in an
hour, or video games where if you screw up you just hit reset. That
mentality doesn't work in flying.

Jay is right: money is not a real cause for dropping out for most
people, but it is a handy excuse. The Sport Pilot will help some, but
with people in post-industrial America and Europe being raised to
avoid risk and not make their own decisions, flying is a strange world
to enter.

gregg wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:


I agree with those that believe that something substantial must be done
to increase the ranks of pilots. Not that I have solutions. But
identifying the issue is worth something. I have resolved to encourage
and/or seduce some friends of mine into flying.

Bravo, Dave! GA needs more folks like you ...



Isn't one of the objectives of the Sport ticket trying to do just that?

I was actually just about to chime in with a Sport Pilot citation......

Indeed, this is one of the main intents of the new rule, to attempt to
revitalize general aviation, particularly the light plane side of it.
How successful it'll be is unclear and the results so far are mixed.

Currently, the persons able to take advantage of it right away are
pilots like myself - privates who own light aircraft that fit into the
Light Sport Aircraft limitations, but for one reason or another can't
maintain a class III medical. I'm actually flying 99% legal under the
rule right now with my private (still need a tailwheel endorsement since
my airplane is a taildragger, then I'll be 100% legal).
The infrastructure for the rest of it is still a long ways away..

In any case, whether this will make aviation more accessible remains to
be seen. I think in some ways it will and in others it won't.

Regardless of what happens, I still don't think it'll make learning to
fly an _easy_ process. It might be easier than before, but it's still a
tough thing to learn to do no matter what route you take.

I agree with the other posters who cited that as probably the main
reason for the high dropout rate. It certainly isn't the money -
there're a lot of rich folks out there with 5 or 10 hours here and
there. I think it's just a lot of work that requires a lot of
commitment. And it's just not a lot of people's bag for that reason....

LS
N646F

"John Doe" wrote in message
nk.net...



Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts
(maybe I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang
with. This doesn't help.

KB


That's because the planes they're flying in are just as old. Some new
teenager or college student doesn't see much excitement when they come out
to the airport and they have to look at 1960s era Cessnas and they wonder
what's keeping the wings on.

Go to another FBO that has a fleet of new Cirrus or Diamond trainers and
you'll see a younger crowd.

This industry needs a major investment to retire all planes older than 20
years old and get some new metal on the ramp.


I think you are putting the effect before the cause. The FBO with the new
planes has them because the have pilots coming through. The fact that they
are young is just luck.

How many young pilots would there be if they all had to buy one of these new
planes? How many would ever start flying when they realized they may never
be able to afford to own one? As far as that goes, how many stop training
because of having to rent a plane? If the majority of us had to rent a car
"all the time" would we bother driving in the first place? Just something to
ponder...

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
newsnlOe.2847$Ix4.463@okepread03...

"John Doe" wrote in message
nk.net...



Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts
(maybe I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang
with. This doesn't help.

KB


That's because the planes they're flying in are just as old. Some new
teenager or college student doesn't see much excitement when they come
out to the airport and they have to look at 1960s era Cessnas and they
wonder what's keeping the wings on.

Go to another FBO that has a fleet of new Cirrus or Diamond trainers and
you'll see a younger crowd.

This industry needs a major investment to retire all planes older than 20
years old and get some new metal on the ramp.


I think you are putting the effect before the cause. The FBO with the new
planes has them because the have pilots coming through. The fact that they
are young is just luck.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:cBxNe.263911$x96.7975@attbi_s72...
Flying is boring to the generation that has been raised on action
filled TV, movies, and video games.

Nonsense. They merely need to be shown the way.

And we're the only ones that can do it, Gene!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


My son has a friend that has a truly awesome computer set up as flight
simulator. Alienware Area 51, Three 19" monitors and every flight sim you
can buy. The kid can shoot an ILS approach into JFK with 0/0. He can
probably out fly most Air Force and Navy pilots in anything from a Spitfire
to a Raptor.

He has zero interest in REAL flying. I don't understand it. I took them up
once and with zero coaching he was able to fly the plane. While I didn't let
him do take off or landing he was capable of perfectly coordinated flight in
S turns, turns around a point you name it.

When we landed he was very polite and thanked me for taking him up. BUT he
has zero interest in REAL flying. He later told my son it was just boring
and he couldn't imagine doing for a living much less for fun.

"gregg" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

I agree with those that believe that something substantial must be done
to increase the ranks of pilots. Not that I have solutions. But
identifying the issue is worth something. I have resolved to encourage
and/or seduce some friends of mine into flying.

Bravo, Dave! GA needs more folks like you ...


Isn't one of the objectives of the Sport ticket trying to do just that?


That's the objective. But te real outcome will be more old guys who are
scared they are going to loose their medicals.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
How many young pilots would there be if they all had to buy one of these
new planes? How many would ever start flying when they realized they may
never be able to afford to own one? As far as that goes, how many stop
training because of having to rent a plane? If the majority of us had to
rent a car "all the time" would we bother driving in the first place? Just
something to ponder...

True. I had stopped flying for several months at times while I was renting
aircraft after getting my certificate. I had to force myself to go out to
rent a plane and get back into it.

As far as buying an aircraft, there are many good used aircraft available
for the price of a car, pickup, SUV, or boat. These aren't the
bigger/faster/newer planes but they're good for general flying. The bad part
is that the hangar rent, maintenance, insurance, etc., for owning a plane is
higher than owning a regular vehicle.

My most expensive purchases have been my car, my current house and my
plane-- in descending order. The annual costs for each would be the house
(taxes, utilities, repairs, etc.), the plane(hangar, maintenance, fuel,
etc.), then the car (insurance, gas, etc.), also descending.

--
-Greg B.
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