Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

That's the objective. But te real outcome will be more old guys who are
scared they are going to loose their medicals.

In other words: a holding action.

- Andrew

My most expensive purchases have been my car, my current house and my
plane-- in descending order.

Sheesh! What do you drive? Where do you live?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

That's the objective. But the real outcome will be more old guys who are
scared they are going to loose their medicals.

That's going to be a major consitutuency of the Sport Pilot rule --
people with PP's and other advanced ratings who "retire" into LSAs.

This will change when the LSAs start showing up (which, in reality,
they have not. J3 Cubs are not going to attract the younger crowd), the
CFIs are ready to teach the new standard (with they are not. obviously,
they have the skills, but they don't have the syllabi, etc.), and most
importantly, the insurance companies know what to do with the LS rule,
which they don't.

That latter one could sink the whole deal. So far, reports from people
who run FBOs do not sound so good.

-- dave j

In this vein, I'd also say that flight training can be frustrating.
There are... setbacks. For example, you might not learn a maneuver as
quickly as you thought you would. Or, you're busy for a while, don't
make it to the airport, and when you do get back in the plane, you're
relearning things you thought you had done.

In my flight training there were a couple of plateaus. These were
frustrating. I wonder how many people drop out, not after solo, but
after hitting one of those and starting to wonder when they're finally
going to 'finish'. It doesn't help that CFIs (at least the three I've
worked with) are loathe to offer encouragement. For some reason, CFI
don't like to say "you'll get it next time."

I will say that I think I'm seeing some real ageism from the oldsters
on this board who think that kids today are somehow made of lesser
stuff than kids in their day. That's ridiculous.

For one, it's not like everyone in their 70s today has learned to fly
-- far from it. And the economics (military and otherwise) were
different when most of them learned. And finally, kids today have many
more activities competing for their attention. That's not the kids
fault. It's just life.

-- dave j

I don't mean to psychoanalyze, but your son's friend's statement seems
suspect. He apparently has spent some time practicing simulated ILSes
into JFK (not to mention paying for and assembling a spiffy flight
simulator), so he must have found it somewhat entertaining on the
computer. How could it have been less entertaining in a real aircraft?

I guess the cost benefit of fun/effort may be better on a computer sim
than in a real aircraft, but that doesn't make it boring, just not the
best "investment."

If that's the case, the GA needs to understand that equation, and start
to tweak it.

-- dave j

Actually ,
The insurance companies are having trouble with insurance on taildraggers
for ALL pilots not just sport pilots. But the flight schools insurance is
covering sport pilot students as well as other students...and no one is
covered in a taildragger. If flight schools buy Ercoupes is solves the
problem I'll keep driving 5 and a half hours to fly a taildragger . Maybe
they will buy one eventually. I had no trouble getting my own insurance as a
sport pilot student and they just can't wait to do more biz with me when I
buy my own plane. I don't see any difference in my first hours of flight
training and a PPL's training. Risky for all new pilots.
CFI's are more than willing to teach sport pilots I have found. yep the
rules need some ironing out, but sport pilot training is happening.
The biggest hurdle is the AIRPLANE! When insurance balks the old
taildraggers from any pilot soloing in them, it leaves a flight school with
it's hands tied. Most flight schools won't chunk out 80G for a new sport
plane , and few sport pilot students will buy their own at that price. So
either some cheaper sport planes come on line or the whole thing will just
be a retirement program for the rich type private pilots who can not get a
medical anymore. Not alot of flight schools go out and buy the Diamonds and
such either, they have the good old all purpose trainers that they pick up
relatively cheap.
True some areas may have the high tech stuff just over flowing but that
is the exception rather than the rule. In NE TN I know of one Cirrus that is
available for rent....still lots and lots of C150's C172 and Cherokee and
Warriors . When everyone that wants to fly builds their own plane then maybe
the prices will come down

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

wrote in message
ups.com...

That's the objective. But the real outcome will be more old guys who are
scared they are going to loose their medicals.

That's going to be a major consitutuency of the Sport Pilot rule --
people with PP's and other advanced ratings who "retire" into LSAs.

This will change when the LSAs start showing up (which, in reality,
they have not. J3 Cubs are not going to attract the younger crowd), the
CFIs are ready to teach the new standard (with they are not. obviously,
they have the skills, but they don't have the syllabi, etc.), and most
importantly, the insurance companies know what to do with the LS rule,
which they don't.

That latter one could sink the whole deal. So far, reports from people
who run FBOs do not sound so good.

-- dave j

Unfortunately, flying can have no lasting appeal for the casual pilot
masses, until it DOES have some reasonably economic utility, and right now
it simply does not

I think it is essentially true that flying has limited economic
utility. Pilots love to argue this point, but I think most of us know
this to be true. I can't tell you the countless hours I have spent
trying to plan flights that "show" how convenient and useful an
airplane is. It's work!

However, you can go two ways with this:
1. fix the economics, show how the family plane can be like the family
car
2. pitch flying as an avocation, something done for entertainment.

In the latter scenario, flying doesn't need to make economic sense,
just not be overly burdensome. However, I'm not sure how many people
you can recruit with 2.

I like the former scenario, but the economics, as near as I can tell,
are getting worse, not better.

-- dave j

It's not the age of the planes, per se. It's:

- the crappy cracked headliner, plastic trim, etc.
- minor bits of hangar rash that some A&P signed off as flyable.
- torn up seats
- musty "grandpa" smell (perhaps with cigar thrown in)
- powdering old paint job
- list of "minor" squawks that will *never* be addressed because
they're not "safety of flight"
- paleozoic avionics

If FBOs would just "spiff up" their planes, they could get much of the
benefit of new AC without the major investment. After all, the new AC
perform similarly. I don't understand why so many FBOs have an attitude
towards maintenance that is basically "maintain aiworthiness; nothing
else matters."

-- dave j

PS -- I've taken most of my friends and s.o.'s up over the years, and
everyone comments on that musty smell. What's the deal with that? Can't
something be done. I'm not kidding. A little can of "new airplane
smell" perhaps?

Hee Hee,
I laugh but it isOHHHH so true!!!! My pet peeve is the ailerons with stop
drilled cracks , not once mind you! Just replace the dang skin already
GEESH! 100 hour inspection my butt! I wouldn't sign half of them off.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

wrote in message
oups.com...

It's not the age of the planes, per se. It's:

- the crappy cracked headliner, plastic trim, etc.
- minor bits of hangar rash that some A&P signed off as flyable.
- torn up seats
- musty "grandpa" smell (perhaps with cigar thrown in)
- powdering old paint job
- list of "minor" squawks that will *never* be addressed because
they're not "safety of flight"
- paleozoic avionics

If FBOs would just "spiff up" their planes, they could get much of the
benefit of new AC without the major investment. After all, the new AC
perform similarly. I don't understand why so many FBOs have an attitude
towards maintenance that is basically "maintain aiworthiness; nothing
else matters."

-- dave j

PS -- I've taken most of my friends and s.o.'s up over the years, and
everyone comments on that musty smell. What's the deal with that? Can't
something be done. I'm not kidding. A little can of "new airplane
smell" perhaps?

He apparently has spent some time practicing simulated ILSes
into JFK (not to mention paying for and assembling a spiffy flight
simulator), so he must have found it somewhat entertaining on the
computer. How could it have been less entertaining in a real aircraft?

Reset button. Thunderstorms. Simulated emergencies.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.