Running dry?

In article itkOe.270577$x96.113603@attbi_s72,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:


Yep. But the extra wing loading (by having the tips full) really, REALLY
makes a difference in turbulence. We have flown places with other pilots
who bitterly complained about the moderate chop en route, which we had not
noticed at all.

Also, in a plane like the Pathfinder, with a 1460 pound useful load, there
is no advantage gained by going light on fuel. (Well, other than rate of
climb, which -- in Iowa -- is pretty much a non-issue. There is no such
thing as having to "out-climb" the terrain around here, and we routinely see
700 fpm climb in summer even with full tanks) Therefore, we top 'er off
after every flight -- even when we have only flown for an hour or two.

I fly an airplane with a 1633 pound useful load and I find quite an
advantage to being light on fuel.

Dragging that extra fuel around makes you slower which means you burn
more fuel along your route.

Perhaps you should rethink your statement about rate-of-climb. What if
you lose a cylinder? (A not uncommon occurance) Now you've only got
partial power to drag your fuel laden airplane containing your family to
a safe landing.

Just because you aren't comfortable with a procedure does not make it
dumb or unsafe.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

On 2005-08-22, Newps wrote:
watched him takeoff Saturday. Took him 1400 feet to leave the runway
with just him and 80 gallons, no flaps. I was disappointed as my goal
is to be able to use a friends 1300 foot runway. Now I already know he

The Bonanza can do considerably better than that. Admittedly at sea
level - but it was on a hot day - I practised with our club's S-35
Bonanza (with full fuel) and could land, come to a complete stop, then
take off again (comfortably) in less than 2000 feet when practising
short field technique in that plane.

Practise a bit, and you can get good short field performance out of a
Bonanza. Carrying half fuel can only help.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On 2005-08-22, john smith wrote:
Be VERY careful in the Bo with reduced fuel in the tanks!
The leading edge tanks on the Bo cause the C/G to move aft with fuel burn.
Starting out with partial fuel means you are starting with the C/G
already partially aft.

I always did a weight and balance for both takeoff and one hour
remaining with any unfamiliar loads. However, although the CofG got
towards the rear of the envelope with 1 hour remaining, I never found a
loading that would put it out of CofG (and definitely not solo or with 2
on board). Four on board and one of them heavy in the back would do it
though.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Jose wrote:

2. Install a fuel totalizer.

This tells you how much fuel you've used, not how much fuel you have
left. It's the fuel you have left that's important. Granted a
subtraction will get you there, but that depends on the very assumptions
that will bite you one day.


My RMI engine monitor gives fuel remaining PLUS fuel endurance (time)
based upon current consumption rate. Add knowing time to destination
plus reasonably accurate fuel gauges and I am set.

I know my gauges are good at the bottom end (where it really matters)
and the fuel remaining is good because I have run tanks dry
deliberately to verify useable fuel. No guessing.

Ron Lee

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 12:52:36 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2005-08-22, Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
As a matter of fact, I believe that the fuel quantity indicators are only
required to be accurate at zero fuel in level flight (for a/c certified
under Part 23).

Close, but no cigar. That one is a bit of an OWT. The fuel quantity
indicator must be calibrated to read zero when there is no usable fuel
left, but:

23.1337:

b) Fuel quantity indication. There must be a means to indicate to the
flightcrew members the quantity of usable fuel in each tank during
flight. An indicator calibrated in appropriate units and clearly marked
to indicate those units must be used. In addition:

(1) Each fuel quantity indicator must be calibrated to read
zero during level flight when the quantity of fuel remaining
in the tank is equal to the unusable fuel supply determined under
§23.959(a);


I sit corrected.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Matt Barrow wrote:



Starting out with partial fuel means you are starting with the C/G
already partially aft.
I always calculated both the takeoff and landing C/G when I flew the Bo
I had access to.


All you need do is NOT overload the rear seats/baggage area.

On a 1300 foot strip I will be all alone and will have removed the rear
seats.



I assume he's getting a V-tail; CG is much better with a straight tail (yet
still a bit narrow).

It is better with the A36, not with the 33's.

Dylan Smith wrote:

On 2005-08-22, Newps wrote:

watched him takeoff Saturday. Took him 1400 feet to leave the runway
with just him and 80 gallons, no flaps. I was disappointed as my goal
is to be able to use a friends 1300 foot runway. Now I already know he


The Bonanza can do considerably better than that. Admittedly at sea
level - but it was on a hot day - I practised with our club's S-35
Bonanza (with full fuel) and could land, come to a complete stop, then
take off again (comfortably) in less than 2000 feet when practising
short field technique in that plane.

Practise a bit, and you can get good short field performance out of a
Bonanza. Carrying half fuel can only help.


Mine will be an S35 also. The empty weight is just a hair over 2000 pounds.

Chris Colohan wrote:
2. Couldn't you calibrate
your gages by filling the tanks, going for a flight, then sticking a
ruler into the tank to see how much is left? Is running the tank dry
any more accurate or useful?

If only it were that simple!
Fuel tanks are of various shapes and sizes.
Linear measurements apply only to tanks with flat sides, tops and bottoms.
I can tell you that on some airplanes, if you look in the filler neck
and see it within an inch of the top, you can still get 10 or more
gallons into it.

And saying something as misinformed as this is worse yet. 99.9% of the
"crap" is heavier than fuel, and sinks, so it is the FIRST thing out of the
tanks, not the last. The 0.1% that is still left floating is eventually
going to be visible in the filler neck.

Get a life, not a totalizer.

Jim


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:4Z9Oe.272046$_o.92006@attbi_s71...


Running a tank dry probably won't lead to anything worse than sucking all
the crap out of your gas tanks -- but you're missing my point.

Marc J. Zeitlin wrote:

Plus, when I would run one tank dry BEFORE I had the FF gauge, it would
be the only time that I would know EXACTLY how much fuel I had left in
the plane. Seems like something worth knowing.

That's only true if you never switch tanks until one tank is dry. If
you run one tank dry, then switch tanks only to find you have
contaminated fuel or, worse, a clogged fuel line, you're pretty much toast.

And if you do swap tanks every [insert favorite time here], then this
argument for running one tank dry doesn't hold up.


I'm totally confused as to what the dangerous part of this action might
be. The engine was running before - it'll run after 3 seconds of not
quite getting enough fuel.

See above. If you switch tanks after three hours of running at 8.5gph
and find your other tank is worthless (contaminated or clogged fuel
line), you can still switch back to the first tank and maybe have enough
fuel to make an emergency powered landing at a nearby airfield instead
of an emergency dead stick landing in Farmer John's corn field (it
looked like a wheat field from the air!). Of course, you don't know how
much fuel you have left in the first tank, nor how long it will last,
but you *do* know for a fact that it will last longer than an empty tank.

In any case, knowing that I have exactly 28 gallons left after 3 hours
and 7 minutes instead of knowing that I have at least 28 gallons left
after 3 hours doesn't mean enough to me to risk not being able to
restart the engine.

Just my opinion.


-m
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