Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

"Jay Honeck" wrote \

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location
for a new refinery or ten.

Problem there is the fact that a supertanker doesn't fit too well in the
Great Lakes locks, and that means no good way to get all of the crude up
there, needed for the refinery to work well. (or at all) :-)
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:27:37 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote \

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location
for a new refinery or ten.

Problem there is the fact that a supertanker doesn't fit too well in the
Great Lakes locks, and that means no good way to get all of the crude up
there, needed for the refinery to work well. (or at all) :-)

There's plans for a new/additional lock, but I don't think you can get
super tankers as far as the Great Lakes. Maybe, but I don't recall
any really wide boats/ships on them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Can we say ice? The Great Lakes freeze up in the winter. For historical
reasons, all the oil and gas is barged up the Hudson River from New York
City to Albany. The Coast Guard makes a major effort to keep a channel
open in the winter.

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:27:37 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote \

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see
mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and
used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect
location
for a new refinery or ten.

Problem there is the fact that a supertanker doesn't fit too well in
the
Great Lakes locks, and that means no good way to get all of the crude
up
there, needed for the refinery to work well. (or at all) :-)

There's plans for a new/additional lock, but I don't think you can get
super tankers as far as the Great Lakes. Maybe, but I don't recall
any really wide boats/ships on them.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 2005-08-26, Jay Honeck wrote:
One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location
for a new refinery or ten.

Erm, there's a reason why all the oil refineries are in places like
Houston and Beaumont, and not in the mid-West.

It would be nice if our supposed "oil president" would issue an executive
order mandating construction of new refineries, pronto -- environmental
restrictions be damned.

Ah. Rape, pillage, poison the earth! And of course, cause premature
death to anyone living downwind.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:03:55 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

We are dangerously low on refinery capacity, and current EPA regulations
make it essentially impossible to build any more in the U.S.

It's insane, but it's the law.

And what would you run through them once you built them?
If you want to see the price of crude really go up, just add more
refinery capacity. Of course that would increase our dependency on
foreign oil even more.

We don't need more refinery capacity, we need to use less


So you wouldn't have any problem with a new refinery coming on-line up
wind of your abode?

Depends on how far upwind.

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location

What do you mean used to? I flew down through there last summer and
it was darn near IFR on a sunshiny day. I was actually thinking about
filing when it started clearing up as I got to the south of Gary. It
was making me cough at 5,000 feet. Admittedly it's nothing like it
was back in the 60s and 70s but it's still a highly polluted area.
Yes, I'm familiar with what it used to be like as I had an uncle who
worked down there.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Why would this be good? Who would it be good for? How would you get the
crude to Gary Indiana?

You don't get it. It is not enviornmental regulation that is preventing new
refineries from being constructed.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:LwwPe.279601$x96.198470@attbi_s72...
We are dangerously low on refinery capacity, and current EPA regulations
make it essentially impossible to build any more in the U.S.

It's insane, but it's the law.

So you wouldn't have any problem with a new refinery coming on-line up
wind of your abode?

Depends on how far upwind.

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location
for a new refinery or ten.

It would be nice if our supposed "oil president" would issue an executive
order mandating construction of new refineries, pronto -- environmental
restrictions be damned. Of course, it would be tied up in the courts for
the next 15 years, and nothing would get done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why would this be good? Who would it be good for? How would you get the
crude to Gary Indiana?

Barge up the Mississippi then Pipeline. At one time there were many
refineries in the area. Only one left is Mobil AIR. Most burned and it is
not economical to rebuild them for the reasons Jay mentioned.

You don't get it. It is not enviornmental regulation that is preventing
new
refineries from being constructed.

Mike
MU-2

Mike Rapoport wrote:
Why would this be good? Who would it be good for? How would you get the
crude to Gary Indiana?

You don't get it. It is not enviornmental regulation that is preventing new
refineries from being constructed.

What is preventing new refineries? (Sorry, I keep getting lost in the
thread.)



Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:LwwPe.279601$x96.198470@attbi_s72...

We are dangerously low on refinery capacity, and current EPA regulations
make it essentially impossible to build any more in the U.S.

It's insane, but it's the law.

So you wouldn't have any problem with a new refinery coming on-line up
wind of your abode?

Depends on how far upwind.

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect location
for a new refinery or ten.

It would be nice if our supposed "oil president" would issue an executive
order mandating construction of new refineries, pronto -- environmental
restrictions be damned. Of course, it would be tied up in the courts for
the next 15 years, and nothing would get done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Some are contending that enviornmental regulations are "preventing" the
constructions of new refineries.

Mike
MU-2


"Jimmy B." wrote in message
ink.net...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
Why would this be good? Who would it be good for? How would you get the
crude to Gary Indiana?

You don't get it. It is not enviornmental regulation that is preventing
new refineries from being constructed.

What is preventing new refineries? (Sorry, I keep getting lost in the
thread.)



Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:LwwPe.279601$x96.198470@attbi_s72...

We are dangerously low on refinery capacity, and current EPA
regulations
make it essentially impossible to build any more in the U.S.

It's insane, but it's the law.

So you wouldn't have any problem with a new refinery coming on-line up
wind of your abode?

Depends on how far upwind.

One idea: If you've ever driven past Gary, Indiana, you would see mile
after mile of abandoned steel mills (that employed thousands, and used to
stink to holy heaven when I was a boy). That would be a perfect
location for a new refinery or ten.

It would be nice if our supposed "oil president" would issue an executive
order mandating construction of new refineries, pronto -- environmental
restrictions be damned. Of course, it would be tied up in the courts for
the next 15 years, and nothing would get done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Some are contending that enviornmental regulations are "preventing"
the
constructions of new refineries.

Mike
MU-2


It's all about money. Environmental regulation costs, citizen lawsuits,
cost to just build. Meanwhile, they make money on tight supplies, and
the industry now is very happy. With the concentration in this industry
among a few big players, no one is motivated to make the first move,
which will put them at a competitive disadvantage, I guess. Make sense?

Fred F.