Garmin 396 -- Maybe I spoke too soon...

Thanks for the feedback Jay. As a "lite" IFR flyer, I couldn't really
justify the cost of a stormscope in my Warrior. I'm still trying to
justify
an autopilot. However, the Garmin 396 simply changes the product landscape
much like the GNS430 did when it first came out. To get the same
capability
in such a neat package would cost you thousands more.

Since playing with the 396, I have spoken with a friend who has a friend
inside Garmin, and another friend who flies the "Big Iron", and they told me
that:

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and 530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive. (And
Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes. (I'm not
sure I buy that, as I think the Lowrance 2000c and the AvMap were both
selling gangbusters at OSH, but perhaps all the pro-396 buzz since OSH has
killed them?)

- The 396's weather depiction and ease of use far exceed anything currently
available in corporate or airline service -- and costs tens of thousands
less -- so those guys are lining up to buy them, too.

Garmin truly has a winner here, but it's not quite a grand slam. It will be
when they (a) set up the unit in "portrait" mode (which is far more useful
than a "landscape" view for aviation), and (b) when they enlarge that stupid
dinky screen!

XM weather will soon spread to other makes and models, and the price will
drop. I can't wait!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

- The 396's weather depiction and ease of use far exceed anything
currently
available in corporate or airline service -- and costs tens of thousands
less -- so those guys are lining up to buy them, too.

So I wonder where someone flying a Falcon put their GPS/XM antenna? :-)
--
Jim in NC

The 430, 530 and 480 will continue to sell. You can't legally do an IFR
approach with a handheld. The 480 has WASS and does the glideslope
thing on GPS approaches. Glad to hear the 396 is winner. GPS is
spreading to cars. You can real time TRAFFIC data piped to your car GPS
now. Cool. Tons of uses for GPS. Garmin has one for everything, Marine,
hiking, hunting, golf, etc. Package tracking is coming. They are on
trucks, railroad cars. The whole world is going GPS.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:hfrPe.281538$_o.240082@attbi_s71...
Thanks for the feedback Jay. As a "lite" IFR flyer, I couldn't really
justify the cost of a stormscope in my Warrior. I'm still trying to
justify
an autopilot. However, the Garmin 396 simply changes the product
landscape
much like the GNS430 did when it first came out. To get the same
capability
in such a neat package would cost you thousands more.

Since playing with the 396, I have spoken with a friend who has a friend
inside Garmin, and another friend who flies the "Big Iron", and they told
me that:

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and
530s. It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less
expensive. (And Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes. (I'm
not sure I buy that, as I think the Lowrance 2000c and the AvMap were both
selling gangbusters at OSH, but perhaps all the pro-396 buzz since OSH has
killed them?)

- The 396's weather depiction and ease of use far exceed anything
currently available in corporate or airline service -- and costs tens of
thousands less -- so those guys are lining up to buy them, too.

Garmin truly has a winner here, but it's not quite a grand slam. It will
be when they (a) set up the unit in "portrait" mode (which is far more
useful than a "landscape" view for aviation), and (b) when they enlarge
that stupid dinky screen!

I think the screen size is fine. I have it mounted on the yoke and if it was
bigger I think it would get in the way.
XM weather will soon spread to other makes and models, and the price will
drop. I can't wait!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and 530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive. (And
Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

This does not compute. The 396 is not capable of doing IFR
approaches. Seems to me that the two are aimed at entirely different
markets.

- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes. (I'm not
sure I buy that, as I think the Lowrance 2000c and the AvMap were both
selling gangbusters at OSH, but perhaps all the pro-396 buzz since OSH has
killed them?)

May or may not be valid.

Ron Lee

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and
530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive.
(And
Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

This does not compute. The 396 is not capable of doing IFR
approaches. Seems to me that the two are aimed at entirely different
markets.

What percentage of 430s/530s are installed in aircraft owned by guys who
actually use them in hard IFR conditions? I'd be willing to bet it's a
pretty small percentage.

On my airport, they have been installed almost exclusively in the "rich
guys" planes -- NONE of whom (to my knowledge) fly hard IFR. (In fact, off
the top of my head I can only name one guy on our airport who flies hard IFR
with his personal aircraft.)

The other reasons I can think of a

- The 396 does weather better than the 430/530.
- If you're buying a $3000 hand-held, you're probably not buying a $5000
panel-mount at the same time
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Despite the myopia concerning 'rich guys', I think you are pretty much
spot on here.

However, I think the price comparison is closer to $2500 handheld and
say $12,000 panel mount.

If your not flying IFR like rich guy Jay, which would you pick? :-)

Jay Honeck wrote:
What percentage of 430s/530s are installed in aircraft owned by guys who
actually use them in hard IFR conditions? I'd be willing to bet it's a
pretty small percentage.

On my airport, they have been installed almost exclusively in the "rich
guys" planes -- NONE of whom (to my knowledge) fly hard IFR. (In fact, off
the top of my head I can only name one guy on our airport who flies hard IFR
with his personal aircraft.)

The other reasons I can think of a

- The 396 does weather better than the 430/530.
- If you're buying a $3000 hand-held, you're probably not buying a $5000
panel-mount at the same time

Maule Driver wrote:
Despite the myopia concerning 'rich guys', I think you are pretty much
spot on here.

However, I think the price comparison is closer to $2500 handheld and
say $12,000 panel mount.

Since the XM weather integration on the 430/530 leaves a bit to be
desired, a more appropriate comparison would, I believe, be a panel
mount figure of around $22K:

430 w/CDI: $10K
EX500: $8K
XM RX: $5K

What I *really* wish Garmin would do is make that $1500 (soon to be
$2000 or more, I'm sure) WAAS upgrade for the 430/530 include a screen
and software upgrade so they could translate this "G1000" style software
presentation and weather / terrain depiction to those units so I
wouldn't have to buy an EX500 or MX20. Now *that* would be worth the
upgrade. Heck, even if they only offered it as a new unit (say the
"Garmin 440/540"), I'd pick one up and relegate the 430 to traffic /
lightning display / 2nd comm duty.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

I was one of the lucky ones who arranged for a friend to buy the 396 at
OSH in late July. I wanted it BEFORE heading out in early Aug on my
family summer vacation flying up and down the East Coast during summer
T-storm season.

The peace of mind and safety margin went up about 100-fold now that I
have this system!! Like some others here, I spent 1 or 2 nites in
unplanned hotel stays in previous years because T storms were popping
up in the vicinity of my route. Ths time I was able to really see what
was in front of me. I had all the info I needed to plow ahead, ask for
a 10 degree change in course to avoid a buildup, or do something more
drastic (like do a 180 or land).

My thumb gets tired from all of the button pushing but that's to be
expected with a Garmin. The XM Wx is great, the display is fine, and
the interface is familiar. Of course there is a danger of getting over
confident and using the system to thread your way between 2 monster
cells. But as long as you keep your head screwed on straight, I think
the system is great. I'll never fly without it again!

--JB

JB wrote:
snip
The peace of mind and safety margin went up about 100-fold now that I
have this system!! Like some others here, I spent 1 or 2 nites in
unplanned hotel stays in previous years because T storms were popping
up in the vicinity of my route. Ths time I was able to really see
what was in front of me. I had all the info I needed to plow ahead,
ask for a 10 degree change in course to avoid a buildup, or do
something more drastic (like do a 180 or land).
snip

I just finished my first weekend of flying and weather analysis with the
396 and I echo your sentiments. The 396's weather delivery and
integration is probably the biggest advance to the art of flying since
GPS itself.

I even love the automotive mode and XM radio -- my friend let me borrow
one of those small FM transmitters and I enjoyed full verbal route
guidance on my way home as well as reasonably clear XM radio. And I say
"reasonably clear" because the cheapo FM transmitter is really the
limiting factor in sound quality -- when the 396 is hooked directly to a
traditional receiver or a set of headphones (say the Bose Quiet Comfort
series) the quality is far superior.

I'm planning on writing a review on my site as soon as I can get some
other articles done, but I can assure everyone wondering that both the
396 AND the XM weather/audio services are worth the coin. This is going
to be a blockbuster.

I do wonder, however, whether this new capability will eventually lead
to an increase in unfortunate results with regard to pilots flying in
weather beyond their capabilities. Call it the "Cirrus effect"...

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------