FLAPS

AMEN

Ron Gregg, CFI


In article , Roy Bourgeois
wrote:

It is interesting to see how this thread changed from a response to a
simple request for opinions about the advisability of flaps on a first ship
- to a discussion of "how to land with flaps" then "It's OK to retract
flaps on landing - because I did it" So let me please add a note of
caution to the new pilot readers: 1) Flight/ground instruction should be
done in person and by somebody who knows you and the specific glider you
are learning to fly. 2) Read and understand the POH for the glider you are
about to fly - it is more reliable than Internet postings. 3) Accept that
retracting the flaps on approach is a very dangerous maneuver for the new
pilot and the observation that some highly experienced pilots can do it
safely does not mean that you should try it.

Roy B. CFI

None of the CFI's I knew were of help.
It takes common sense, some forethought and a competent airman
to start, regardless of how many hours you have. I my case I
made my first flight in an all flapped glider after 14 hours in Gliders
and completed my 300 km O&T after 40hours.
As well as 3 outlanding in previous attempt all with this flapped glider.
Please do not make it sound as if flying a flapped glider the first time out
is dangerous. It is no more dangerous then going solo.
Also, in my comments I provide a way to reduce the need for flap use the
first time out.
Udo


"Ron Gregg" wrote in message
...

AMEN

Ron Gregg, CFI


In article , Roy Bourgeois
wrote:

It is interesting to see how this thread changed from a response to a
simple request for opinions about the advisability of flaps on a first
ship
- to a discussion of "how to land with flaps" then "It's OK to retract
flaps on landing - because I did it" So let me please add a note of
caution to the new pilot readers: 1) Flight/ground instruction should be
done in person and by somebody who knows you and the specific glider you
are learning to fly. 2) Read and understand the POH for the glider you
are
about to fly - it is more reliable than Internet postings. 3) Accept that
retracting the flaps on approach is a very dangerous maneuver for the new
pilot and the observation that some highly experienced pilots can do it
safely does not mean that you should try it.

Roy B. CFI

The original post referred to gliders that used flaps and divebrakes
(spoilers), not gliders that use only flaps for landing. Flap only gliders
that use flaps for landing require more accurate speed control during
approach/landings. I once saw an HP-10 (no spoilers) float the entire
length of the runway and end up in the trees at the far end, just because
the very experienced pilot did not pay attention to his approach speed. I
heard about another competent airman who flew a Schweizer 1-35 (again no
spoilers) for the first time and had trouble putting it down, so he removed
the flaps to prevent over running the runway; he landed hard, causing minor
damage to the fuselage. OTOH, on a flapped/spoilered ship, I've seen a very
experienced pilot mistake the flap control for the spoiler control and end
up in a tree just short of the runway.

"Udo Rumpf" wrote in message
...

None of the CFI's I knew were of help.
It takes common sense, some forethought and a competent airman
to start, regardless of how many hours you have. I my case I
made my first flight in an all flapped glider after 14 hours in Gliders
and completed my 300 km O&T after 40hours.
As well as 3 outlanding in previous attempt all with this flapped glider.
Please do not make it sound as if flying a flapped glider the first time
out
is dangerous. It is no more dangerous then going solo.
Also, in my comments I provide a way to reduce the need for flap use the
first time out.
Udo


"Ron Gregg" wrote in message
...

AMEN

Ron Gregg, CFI


In article , Roy Bourgeois
wrote:

It is interesting to see how this thread changed from a response to a
simple request for opinions about the advisability of flaps on a first
ship
- to a discussion of "how to land with flaps" then "It's OK to retract
flaps on landing - because I did it" So let me please add a note of
caution to the new pilot readers: 1) Flight/ground instruction should
be
done in person and by somebody who knows you and the specific glider
you
are learning to fly. 2) Read and understand the POH for the glider you
are
about to fly - it is more reliable than Internet postings. 3) Accept
that
retracting the flaps on approach is a very dangerous maneuver for the
new
pilot and the observation that some highly experienced pilots can do
it
safely does not mean that you should try it.

Roy B. CFI

Bob Salvo wrote:
The original post referred to gliders that used flaps and divebrakes
(spoilers), not gliders that use only flaps for landing. Flap only gliders
that use flaps for landing require more accurate speed control during
approach/landings. I once saw an HP-10 (no spoilers) float the entire
length of the runway and end up in the trees at the far end, just because
the very experienced pilot did not pay attention to his approach speed. I
heard about another competent airman who flew a Schweizer 1-35 (again no
spoilers) for the first time and had trouble putting it down, so he removed
the flaps to prevent over running the runway; he landed hard, causing minor
damage to the fuselage. OTOH, on a flapped/spoilered ship, I've seen a very
experienced pilot mistake the flap control for the spoiler control and end
up in a tree just short of the runway.

Udo provides some very valuable advice that newcomers to flaps would be
wise to heed. This includes taking a high tow on your first flight,
practicing with the flaps at altitude, and assuring that the runway is
long. This is what I did on my first flight in a flapped (flaps-only)
ship. I had only about 25 hours flying anything at the time. I agree
with Udo that flaps should not be feared. Of course they must be
respected. But dumb/dangerous maneuvers can be done in any glider with
or without flaps.

Regards,

-Doug

Hi Bob,
I can recite the same scenarios with conventional gliders.
During my first four seasons of flying my "dangers Glider"
A Twin Grob got bang up twice, in the last one it got written off.
In each case Pilots flying solo in it.
An other incident an Astir landed short and it got written off as well.
Shortly there after a Blanik with a CFI on board landing short running into
a fence also a write off.
All home field mishaps
This was the beginning of the end for the club and I am sad to say the club
is no longer with us.
Udo



"Bob Salvo" wrote in message
...
The original post referred to gliders that used flaps and divebrakes
(spoilers), not gliders that use only flaps for landing. Flap only
gliders
that use flaps for landing require more accurate speed control during
approach/landings. I once saw an HP-10 (no spoilers) float the entire
length of the runway and end up in the trees at the far end, just because
the very experienced pilot did not pay attention to his approach speed. I
heard about another competent airman who flew a Schweizer 1-35 (again no
spoilers) for the first time and had trouble putting it down, so he
removed
the flaps to prevent over running the runway; he landed hard, causing
minor
damage to the fuselage. OTOH, on a flapped/spoilered ship, I've seen a
very
experienced pilot mistake the flap control for the spoiler control and end
up in a tree just short of the runway.

"Udo Rumpf" wrote in message
...

None of the CFI's I knew were of help.
It takes common sense, some forethought and a competent airman
to start, regardless of how many hours you have. I my case I
made my first flight in an all flapped glider after 14 hours in Gliders
and completed my 300 km O&T after 40hours.
As well as 3 outlanding in previous attempt all with this flapped glider.
Please do not make it sound as if flying a flapped glider the first time
out
is dangerous. It is no more dangerous then going solo.
Also, in my comments I provide a way to reduce the need for flap use the
first time out.
Udo


"Ron Gregg" wrote in message
...

AMEN

Ron Gregg, CFI


In article , Roy Bourgeois
wrote:

It is interesting to see how this thread changed from a response to a
simple request for opinions about the advisability of flaps on a first
ship
- to a discussion of "how to land with flaps" then "It's OK to retract
flaps on landing - because I did it" So let me please add a note of
caution to the new pilot readers: 1) Flight/ground instruction should
be
done in person and by somebody who knows you and the specific glider
you
are learning to fly. 2) Read and understand the POH for the glider you
are
about to fly - it is more reliable than Internet postings. 3) Accept
that
retracting the flaps on approach is a very dangerous maneuver for the
new
pilot and the observation that some highly experienced pilots can do
it
safely does not mean that you should try it.

Roy B. CFI