EPA update

Steve: You seem like a reasonable guy. It is not one guy in his mooney
that have really gotten under my skin. (Besides, that jerk seems to have
abandoned his daily 4:55 am training sessions..). Its the Mooney, the
Bonanza, the idiot in the Pitts, the twin Otter, etc. I think about 90%
of the pilots who fly by my summer home try to "fly friendly." There are
the 10% of idiots who create a damned racket nearly every weekend. And,
the idiots at the airport authority have treated me and others I know who
have complained about noise, with utter contempt. So, this is my little
way of hitting back.

Ironically, the level of GA traffic seems to have dropped off quite a bit
over the last two years (maybe I can retire to my summer home afterall!).
Maybe the rising cost of AV gas, rising rental costs etc. are taking a toll
(the silver lining in $70/bbl crude)?

Skylune out.

Your 'little way of hitting back' is costing ME money. Where do you think
the FBO will get the money to pay for this secondary containment equipment?
You've touted the fact that you've reduced airport funding, so the only
source of funds left is from the FBO customers (ME).

The airport authority will turn around and show how they're being socially
responsible by making me pay for this equipment. As stated earlier, no
reported fuel spill has ever occurred that this equipment would prevent.
You're simply taking money from MY pocket because of the Mooney, the
Bonanza, the Pitts, The twin Otter and the etc.

Thanks loads.


"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Steve: You seem like a reasonable guy. It is not one guy in his mooney
that have really gotten under my skin. (Besides, that jerk seems to have
abandoned his daily 4:55 am training sessions..). Its the Mooney, the
Bonanza, the idiot in the Pitts, the twin Otter, etc. I think about 90%
of the pilots who fly by my summer home try to "fly friendly." There are
the 10% of idiots who create a damned racket nearly every weekend. And,
the idiots at the airport authority have treated me and others I know who
have complained about noise, with utter contempt. So, this is my little
way of hitting back.

Ironically, the level of GA traffic seems to have dropped off quite a bit
over the last two years (maybe I can retire to my summer home afterall!).
Maybe the rising cost of AV gas, rising rental costs etc. are taking a
toll
(the silver lining in $70/bbl crude)?

Skylune out.

Well how am I, who bought property about 5 miles from the airport about 15
years ago, specifically avoiding areas around both runways and in the
pattern, being compensated for pilots who want to engage in low level
flying? And for the airport that now means to expand to attract more
business??

I've gone to the meetings, and met the ridiculous "airport here first
argument." (Because of their age, almost all airports were there first.
Does that mean they can expand --with my taxpayer money and commercial
airline surcharges--without limit?) I have been treated with disdain by
the airport staff, and in a patronizing way by the moronic airport
consultant they hired to conduct a public meeting. On the (only three)
occassions I called to complain about a REALLY low, loud flier, I was
treated by disdain by the airport staff and the FAA. (Like anyone on the
ground can get an N number of a plane zoooming about 500 ft overhead....).
So I got fed up, did my research, and exercised my rights to express my
opinion. Never broke any laws, threatened, etc.

Everyone knows that voluntary noise abatement is a total joke. Why is it
that boats, motorcycles, cars, stereos, leaf blowers, barking dogs,
EVERYTHING, are subject to community noise ordinances except GA? Its true
that a leaf blower may make more noise up close (not more than the idiot
Mooney pilot, though). The difference is that my neighbors have respect
for one another, and we are not anonymous, unlike the looney Mooney pilot
who was flying every morning before five -- I guess he likes the smooth
air and how his plane could really rip at that hour......

As far as the EPA regulations, we all must abide by regulations we don't
necessarily agree with. I didn't write them, and I may not even agree
with them. Its the EPA that is costing you money on this particular
issue. And rising fuel prices are taking a toll on everyone.
Discretionary activities, like flying for pleasure (and most boating),
will of course take a disproportionate hit.

Well how am I, who bought property about 5 miles from the airport about 15
years ago, specifically avoiding areas around both runways and in the
pattern, being compensated for pilots who want to engage in low level
flying?

The same way I am compensated by people who run leaf blowers in my
neighborhood in the morning when I am trying to sleep.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Why do you feel entitled to compensation? Bad things happen to good people.
Life isn't fair. Live with it.

It seems that you're angry at the 10% (your figure) pilots who create the
problem, along with the establishment for not resolving what you perceive as
a problem, and have decided to do whatever you can to get even. Swatting
flies with a cannon.

Like I said, you are punishing ME, personally, by taking money from my
pocket to pay for a useless containment system. What do you get from it,
except the satisfaction of 'getting even'?

You've stated that everything you've done is legal. Tell me, is it right?

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Well how am I, who bought property about 5 miles from the airport about 15
years ago, specifically avoiding areas around both runways and in the
pattern, being compensated for pilots who want to engage in low level
flying? And for the airport that now means to expand to attract more
business??

I've gone to the meetings, and met the ridiculous "airport here first
argument." (Because of their age, almost all airports were there first.
Does that mean they can expand --with my taxpayer money and commercial
airline surcharges--without limit?) I have been treated with disdain by
the airport staff, and in a patronizing way by the moronic airport
consultant they hired to conduct a public meeting. On the (only three)
occassions I called to complain about a REALLY low, loud flier, I was
treated by disdain by the airport staff and the FAA. (Like anyone on the
ground can get an N number of a plane zoooming about 500 ft overhead....).
So I got fed up, did my research, and exercised my rights to express my
opinion. Never broke any laws, threatened, etc.

Everyone knows that voluntary noise abatement is a total joke. Why is it
that boats, motorcycles, cars, stereos, leaf blowers, barking dogs,
EVERYTHING, are subject to community noise ordinances except GA? Its true
that a leaf blower may make more noise up close (not more than the idiot
Mooney pilot, though). The difference is that my neighbors have respect
for one another, and we are not anonymous, unlike the looney Mooney pilot
who was flying every morning before five -- I guess he likes the smooth
air and how his plane could really rip at that hour......

As far as the EPA regulations, we all must abide by regulations we don't
necessarily agree with. I didn't write them, and I may not even agree
with them. Its the EPA that is costing you money on this particular
issue. And rising fuel prices are taking a toll on everyone.
Discretionary activities, like flying for pleasure (and most boating),
will of course take a disproportionate hit.

OK, following talkabout protocol....Steve wrote:

"Why do you feel entitled to compensation? Bad things happen to good
people.
Life isn't fair. Live with it.

It seems that you're angry at the 10% (your figure) pilots who create the
problem, along with the establishment for not resolving what you perceive
as
a problem, and have decided to do whatever you can to get even. Swatting
flies with a cannon.

Like I said, you are punishing ME, personally, by taking money from my
pocket to pay for a useless containment system. What do you get from it,
except the satisfaction of 'getting even'?

You've stated that everything you've done is legal. Tell me, is it
right?"

Steve: I was not clear in my prior post. I do not want compensation. I
simply want the FAA minimums enforced and I want community concerns to be
on the agenda at the airport. I want the airport and the FBOs to tell the
pilots to obey the voluntary noise abatement procedures (safety permitting,
obviously). I want the corrupt FAA bureaucracy to stop taking my taxpayer
money to support private business interests, thereby artificially lowering
the cost of GA to the pilots. In other words, I believe in the free
market, not in subsidizing private interests with MY money. User fees are
fair and equitable, and they are coming. Taxpayers (and commercial
passengers) should not support private hobbies and business interests.

By the way, using Phil Boyer's logic, the EPA regulations are not costing
u a dime: simply pass them on to your customers. (Phil B: commercial
airlines do not subsidize the FAA budget for GA purposes because they pass
the cost onto passengers -- this is his stupid argumement. This guy really
is a gem, and very bad for your industry....)


As far as life being unfair, live with it.... Very true. So you too
should live with the EPA regulations, or exercise your right as a citizen
to have them changed. I did not take a single penny from your pocket; the
EPA made the rules. I simply pointed out that I oppose the aircraft
fueling industry's attempts to thwart an existing EPA regulation. You
should take that reg up with the EPA and your elected officials, like I
do.

Everything I do is legal (well, except obey the 55 mph speed limit), and
yes, "right." If a group of pilots insists that they have the god-given
"right" to make a bunch of noise, fly below minimums, etc, I certainly
have the right to point out the problem to people who might make a
difference.

The minority of flyers who wreak noise havoc are the ones you should be
****ed off at, not me and the other victims of their anti-social
behaviour.

When I went to the airport meeting last year for the expansion project
(they try to make it more palatable by using the word "improvements"),
there were many old residents there that were too unsure or intimidated to
ask questions or complain about the lack of adherence to the voluntary
noise standards. All they knew was that they were being awakened on a
nightly basis (some by FBO's doing work all night, others by takeoffs and
landing, and still others by high RPM runups at night.) Your very own
Skylune of course has no such reservations, and I did my homework before
the meeting. I know about the part 150 study the airport never adhered
to, I know about the traffic pattern, I know about the corrupt authority's
plans to get more city tax dollars after refusing to consider fee
increases..... I just pointed out these issues and asked some questions.
(Funny aside: I thought one of the pilots was gonna punch me out after the
meeting, the way he was glaring at me. But, given that he has about a 44
inch waist and I am an athletic type, I guess he thought twice.... Maybe
he is the Mooney guy. I will catch that N-number one of these days!)

After I began asking questions, many of the elderly residents also began
asking questions and expressing noise complaints. Initially, the airport
people tried (SOP) to portray me as whining whacko. I thanked the others
for backing me up and also standing up for THEIR rights.

As far as my using using a "cannon" to swat flies, you are giving me, a
single individual, far too much credit. But I'm trying to get more people
organized. Unfortunately, many will just suffer in silence against the
well-moneyed, organized local airport cabal. I consider my efforts a
public service.

Skylune out (really this time). Good luck to you (and I mean it, you
seem to be a reasonable guy caught in the middle).

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:01:23 -0400, "Skylune"
wrote in
outaviation.com::

I do not want compensation. I
simply want the FAA minimums enforced and I want community concerns to be
on the agenda at the airport. I want the airport and the FBOs to tell the
pilots to obey the voluntary noise abatement procedures (safety permitting,
obviously).


Personally, I believe your motives are not those you espouse above. If
they were, you'd have approached the problem more directly. I suspect
you feel emotionally emasculated and impotent due to your inability to
effectively think of a way to enforce the no-fly zone over your home
you have deluded yourself into believing should exist.

If I was interested in obtaining the registration number of an
aircraft, I'd monitor the tower radio transmissions. And If I wanted
pilots to be made aware of the voluntary noise abatement procedures,
I'd create suitably large placards and signs, and see that they were
placed in appropriate locations where pilots would find it difficult
to ignore them. Then I'd send personal birthday gifts to the ATC
staff who have some control over the route used by departing flights,
and include a polite request that they instruct pilots in compliance
with the voluntary noise abatement procedures.

But you won't do any of those things, because you just want to vent
your irrational anger and resentment. Taking the type of constructive
action I have suggested to achieve your espoused goals won't satisfy
your emotional need to defend your lack of intelligence, so I guess
the readership of this newsgroup will have to continue to endure your
childish drivel.

I "suspect" you are a fat slob who can't compete in a real sport, and seeks
his thrills by flying a plane. I suspect, based on your stupid
observations that you are also, how shall I say, academically challenged.
I suspect that you bust minimums and buzz peoples homes if you don't get
your way.

Lets see: I called the airport authority to complain about low flying
planes, even pointing out the model number. The response was beyond rude.
I went to a meeting to ask specific questions about the expansion that
they call "improvements." I got push back. I called the FAA's ridiculous
noise complaint line: they asked me for N-numbers and proof. In short, I
got the bum's rush.

You want me to buy a monitor and listen to ATC?!!!! And buy gifts for the
FAA people. And make signs and "place them" strategically???? That is
your "constructive" solution??? Laughable. You are a nut case.

What I object to is your attack on all aviation, not simply the "group of
pilots insists that they have the god-given "right" to make a bunch of
noise, fly below minimums, etc,"

Previously you wrote:
"And now, we will use every opportunity and newsbite (user fees, requested
subsidies from the city, water pollution, noise pollution, traffic concerns,
safety issues, etc.) to fight back and raise the pilots' cost of doing
business."

Legal or not, I still consider it a form of harassment, and you're taking
money away from ME. I don't have customers. I fly for recreation. You're
simply forcing up my costs to be vindictive. I don't agree that it's right.


"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
OK, following talkabout protocol....Steve wrote:

Everything I do is legal (well, except obey the 55 mph speed limit), and
yes, "right." If a group of pilots insists that they have the god-given
"right" to make a bunch of noise, fly below minimums, etc, I certainly
have the right to point out the problem to people who might make a
difference.

Why do you feel entitled to compensation? Bad things happen to good people.
Life isn't fair. Live with it.

It seems that you're angry at the 10% (your figure) pilots who create the
problem, along with the establishment for not resolving what you perceive as
a problem, and have decided to do whatever you can to get even. Swatting
flies with a cannon.

Like I said, you are punishing ME, personally, by taking money from my
pocket to pay for a useless containment system. What do you get from it,
except the satisfaction of 'getting even'?

You've stated that everything you've done is legal. Tell me, is it right?

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Well how am I, who bought property about 5 miles from the airport about 15
years ago, specifically avoiding areas around both runways and in the
pattern, being compensated for pilots who want to engage in low level
flying? And for the airport that now means to expand to attract more
business??

I've gone to the meetings, and met the ridiculous "airport here first
argument." (Because of their age, almost all airports were there first.
Does that mean they can expand --with my taxpayer money and commercial
airline surcharges--without limit?) I have been treated with disdain by
the airport staff, and in a patronizing way by the moronic airport
consultant they hired to conduct a public meeting. On the (only three)
occassions I called to complain about a REALLY low, loud flier, I was
treated by disdain by the airport staff and the FAA. (Like anyone on the
ground can get an N number of a plane zoooming about 500 ft overhead....).
So I got fed up, did my research, and exercised my rights to express my
opinion. Never broke any laws, threatened, etc.

Everyone knows that voluntary noise abatement is a total joke. Why is it
that boats, motorcycles, cars, stereos, leaf blowers, barking dogs,
EVERYTHING, are subject to community noise ordinances except GA? Its true
that a leaf blower may make more noise up close (not more than the idiot
Mooney pilot, though). The difference is that my neighbors have respect
for one another, and we are not anonymous, unlike the looney Mooney pilot
who was flying every morning before five -- I guess he likes the smooth
air and how his plane could really rip at that hour......

As far as the EPA regulations, we all must abide by regulations we don't
necessarily agree with. I didn't write them, and I may not even agree
with them. Its the EPA that is costing you money on this particular
issue. And rising fuel prices are taking a toll on everyone.
Discretionary activities, like flying for pleasure (and most boating),
will of course take a disproportionate hit.