Repercussions for people outside New Orleans

Us Gasoline supply has been cut by a third. My point is let the people in
the US reduce their consumption by a third. Price stays down, no one else
gets f****d up. As has been said in the thread, this was a problem waiting
to happen, the politicians knew about it, the local authorities new about
it and business knew about it but they ignored it.

Right, but what you fail to realize is that this is a SELF-IMPOSED disaster,
by well-meaning Americans who thought that they were helping the world by
making it impossible for oil companies to build any new refineries.

The hurricane was inevitable; the consequences were not.

I suspect, given what you're saying, that you probably agreed with their
environmental approach. You probably cheered as, one by one, more and more
restrictive U.S. laws were passed, making it harder and harder for suppliers
to refine crude oil into gasoline. Until now.

Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly -- worldwide --
maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental extremists have done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2005-09-01, Jay Honeck wrote:
Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly -- worldwide --
maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental extremists have done.

Short sightedness? Leaving everyone to freely pollute would be short
sighted. This disaster, although on a massive scale, will be a mere blip
compared to the permanent damage that allowing unfettered pollution
would cause. Perhaps you ought to move to China, where there are few
environmental regulations. A friend of mine lived there. The stories he
told would make your wossnames spin. It is NASTY living in a polluted
cesspool. Of course, it's not in your back yard so you probably don't
mind so much so long as your fuel is cheap. So what if refinery workers
are being poisoned and so what if residents of Texas City have a life
expectency twenty years shorter than they do now. Having lived in that
area, I can tell you that the environmental regulations need
*tightening* or the whole area will be a toxic wasteland for our
children and grandchildren to spend billions on cleaning up.

You know I didn't need the marker beacon to tell me when I was over the
OM for Galveston on the ILS 13? You knew the OM was coming because you
could smell this foul, sickening smell from the refineries. Any time
there was a temperature inversion, the air turned green. The otherwise
gorgeous blue winter days in Texas were marred by the stench of the
refineries in Pasadena. It used to be worse - the DE I flew with for my
instrument and glider rides told me what the sickness rates used to be
like and the rivers devoid of fish. Rivers that would periodically catch
fire. Xylene showers. Industrial accidents that were so common no one
even blinked.

I've lived in one of America's most polluted cities - I dread to think
what the place would have been like without the fairly weak
environmental regulations that were in place. It is NOT impossible for
oil companies to build more refineries. I think Mike Rappoport explained
it pretty well already. Much of the 'self imposed' disaster is because
the western world has generally moved to a just-in-time system of doing
pretty much everything, where everything is run at exactly capacity with
absolutely no margin for error - intentionally, to cut costs to the bare
minimum.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2005-09-01, Jay Honeck wrote:
Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly --
worldwide --
maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental extremists have
done.

Short sightedness? Leaving everyone to freely pollute would be short
sighted. This disaster, although on a massive scale, will be a mere
blip
compared to the permanent damage that allowing unfettered pollution
would cause. Perhaps you ought to move to China, where there are few
environmental regulations. A friend of mine lived there. The stories
he
told would make your wossnames spin. It is NASTY living in a polluted
cesspool. Of course, it's not in your back yard so you probably don't
mind so much so long as your fuel is cheap. So what if refinery
workers
are being poisoned and so what if residents of Texas City have a life
expectency twenty years shorter than they do now. Having lived in that
area, I can tell you that the environmental regulations need
*tightening* or the whole area will be a toxic wasteland for our
children and grandchildren to spend billions on cleaning up.

You know I didn't need the marker beacon to tell me when I was over
the
OM for Galveston on the ILS 13? You knew the OM was coming because you
could smell this foul, sickening smell from the refineries. Any time
there was a temperature inversion, the air turned green. The otherwise
gorgeous blue winter days in Texas were marred by the stench of the
refineries in Pasadena. It used to be worse - the DE I flew with for
my
instrument and glider rides told me what the sickness rates used to be
like and the rivers devoid of fish. Rivers that would periodically
catch
fire. Xylene showers. Industrial accidents that were so common no one
even blinked.

I've lived in one of America's most polluted cities - I dread to think
what the place would have been like without the fairly weak
environmental regulations that were in place. It is NOT impossible for
oil companies to build more refineries. I think Mike Rappoport
explained
it pretty well already. Much of the 'self imposed' disaster is because
the western world has generally moved to a just-in-time system of
doing
pretty much everything, where everything is run at exactly capacity
with
absolutely no margin for error - intentionally, to cut costs to the
bare
minimum.

Attaboy, Dylan.

I'm a Houston native, myself, and one of my strongest childhood memories
is of our family reunion being driven from Milby Park by the vile stench
coming from a nearby chemical plant.

Houston is still a nasty place under a temperature inversion, but it
used to be worse before there were even the half-hearted environmental
regulations that are in place now. Upper Galveston Bay is still so
polluted by Buffalo Bayou--Houston's filthy industrial artery--that its
fish cannot be eaten.

Jay, you simply have no idea.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Jay, you simply have no idea.

Really?

I grew up in a city that hosted the largest tractor plant in the world (JI
Case's "Clausen Works"), right on the shores of Lake Michigan. Ten
thousand men worked there every day.

Racine was also host to Modine Manufacturing, Twin Disc, Walker
Manufacturing, and a hundred other smaller manufacturing plants. The skies
overhead were black with soot, and the lake water was very polluted.

Throughout the '70s, as more and more environmental laws were enacted, the
air slowly cleared, and the water quality improved. And, one by one, each
of these plants closed.

The Clausen Works survived, at a much diminished capacity, until just a
couple of years ago. It's now a great, barren, concrete and asphalt plain.
Although a couple of those companies maintain a presence in Racine, their
production facilities are long gone.

Now, our Lake water is so clear, that the lake perch have been devastated by
the salmon -- the poor things simply have no place to hide, because the
water is actually *too* clean. And the boating is great -- for those few
who can afford it.

And all those jobs? All those families? All that infrastructure? All
gone.

Now, obviously, there's a lot more to the utter demise of the Rust Belt than
merely environmental lunacy. The unions got greedy, and came to expect
that a guy turning a nut with a wrench all day was really worth $60K per
year. And management got fat and lazy, thinking that the gravy train would
last forever.

But if you don't think that over-the-top, complex and expensive
environmental regulation played a major part in our economic collapse (and
that is truly what it was/is), you are either a fool or you just haven't
been paying attention. And now we're seeing it happen in the oil
industry -- the very heart and mainstay of our economic system.

We have seen the enemy, and it is us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Jay, you simply have no idea.

Really?

I grew up in a city that hosted the largest tractor plant in the world
(JI Case's "Clausen Works"), right on the shores of Lake Michigan.
Ten thousand men worked there every day.

Racine was also host to Modine Manufacturing, Twin Disc, Walker
Manufacturing, and a hundred other smaller manufacturing plants. The
skies overhead were black with soot, and the lake water was very
polluted.

Throughout the '70s, as more and more environmental laws were enacted,
the air slowly cleared, and the water quality improved. And, one by
one, each of these plants closed.

The Clausen Works survived, at a much diminished capacity, until just
a couple of years ago. It's now a great, barren, concrete and asphalt
plain. Although a couple of those companies maintain a presence in
Racine, their production facilities are long gone.

Now, our Lake water is so clear, that the lake perch have been
devastated by the salmon -- the poor things simply have no place to
hide, because the water is actually *too* clean. And the boating is
great -- for those few who can afford it.

And all those jobs? All those families? All that infrastructure?
All gone.

Now, obviously, there's a lot more to the utter demise of the Rust
Belt than merely environmental lunacy. The unions got greedy, and
came to expect that a guy turning a nut with a wrench all day was
really worth $60K per year. And management got fat and lazy, thinking
that the gravy train would last forever.

But if you don't think that over-the-top, complex and expensive
environmental regulation played a major part in our economic collapse
(and that is truly what it was/is), you are either a fool or you just
haven't been paying attention. And now we're seeing it happen in the
oil industry -- the very heart and mainstay of our economic system.

We have seen the enemy, and it is us.

Incredible. You have actually argued that gross pollution of the Great
Lakes was acceptable.

As for who is a fool and who isn't, your recent posts haver settled that
matter for me.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Incredible. You have actually argued that gross pollution of the
Great Lakes was acceptable.

As for who is a fool and who isn't, your recent posts haver settled
that matter for me.

His intense haterd for anyone who gives a crap about the environment seems
to be turning him into a blathering idiot.

Jay, quit whining already. Maybe you an relax by filing the air with lead
deposits.

HELLO!!! ARE YOU LISTENING JAY???

Where do you get this BS?

IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD NEW REFINERIES.

sorry for shouting.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:bgKRe.302703$_o.171971@attbi_s71...
Us Gasoline supply has been cut by a third. My point is let the people in
the US reduce their consumption by a third. Price stays down, no one else
gets f****d up. As has been said in the thread, this was a problem
waiting to happen, the politicians knew about it, the local authorities
new about it and business knew about it but they ignored it.

Right, but what you fail to realize is that this is a SELF-IMPOSED
disaster, by well-meaning Americans who thought that they were helping the
world by making it impossible for oil companies to build any new
refineries.

The hurricane was inevitable; the consequences were not.

I suspect, given what you're saying, that you probably agreed with their
environmental approach. You probably cheered as, one by one, more and
more restrictive U.S. laws were passed, making it harder and harder for
suppliers to refine crude oil into gasoline. Until now.

Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly --
worldwide -- maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental
extremists have done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections, August 2004.

"... you'd think oil companies would be falling over each other to build
new refineries. Not so. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the
United States in 28 years and more than 200 smaller facilities have
closed.''

"Nobody seems to want to build a refinery in their back yard," David
O'Reilly, chairman of ChevronTexaco, told a US Chamber of Commerce
luncheon the other day, deploring what he said was a regulatory and
permitting morass and almost certain citizen opposition to any new
refinery project.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnn43384.htm

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
HELLO!!! ARE YOU LISTENING JAY???

Where do you get this BS?

IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD NEW REFINERIES.

sorry for shouting.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:bgKRe.302703$_o.171971@attbi_s71...
Us Gasoline supply has been cut by a third. My point is let the
people in the US reduce their consumption by a third. Price stays
down, no one else gets f****d up. As has been said in the thread,
this was a problem waiting to happen, the politicians knew about it,
the local authorities new about it and business knew about it but
they ignored it.

Right, but what you fail to realize is that this is a SELF-IMPOSED
disaster, by well-meaning Americans who thought that they were
helping the world by making it impossible for oil companies to build
any new refineries.

The hurricane was inevitable; the consequences were not.

I suspect, given what you're saying, that you probably agreed with
their environmental approach. You probably cheered as, one by one,
more and more restrictive U.S. laws were passed, making it harder and
harder for suppliers to refine crude oil into gasoline. Until now.

Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly --
worldwide -- maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental
extremists have done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Yes, I am aware that there are those who's job it is to complain about any
cost imposed on them

From 2003 to the present gasoline consumption, and therefore production, has
tripled while no new refineries have been built and many have been closed.
Basically the refineries have been rebuilt on the same footprint and now
output vastly more product.

Mike
MU-2


"sfb" wrote in message news:MbMRe.28381$FL1.9166@trnddc09...
Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections, August 2004.

"... you'd think oil companies would be falling over each other to build
new refineries. Not so. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the
United States in 28 years and more than 200 smaller facilities have
closed.''

"Nobody seems to want to build a refinery in their back yard," David
O'Reilly, chairman of ChevronTexaco, told a US Chamber of Commerce
luncheon the other day, deploring what he said was a regulatory and
permitting morass and almost certain citizen opposition to any new
refinery project.

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnn43384.htm

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
HELLO!!! ARE YOU LISTENING JAY???

Where do you get this BS?

IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD NEW REFINERIES.

sorry for shouting.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:bgKRe.302703$_o.171971@attbi_s71...
Us Gasoline supply has been cut by a third. My point is let the people
in the US reduce their consumption by a third. Price stays down, no one
else gets f****d up. As has been said in the thread, this was a problem
waiting to happen, the politicians knew about it, the local authorities
new about it and business knew about it but they ignored it.

Right, but what you fail to realize is that this is a SELF-IMPOSED
disaster, by well-meaning Americans who thought that they were helping
the world by making it impossible for oil companies to build any new
refineries.

The hurricane was inevitable; the consequences were not.

I suspect, given what you're saying, that you probably agreed with their
environmental approach. You probably cheered as, one by one, more and
more restrictive U.S. laws were passed, making it harder and harder for
suppliers to refine crude oil into gasoline. Until now.

Now that their short-sightedness is hurting everyone, badly --
worldwide -- maybe you'll realize just how much harm environmental
extremists have done.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You know, I really like some of these off topic threads.
I actually learn somethings I didn't know.
Granted, it is Usenet.
However, the contributions by several of the regulars has to be given
credibility based on previous contributions.
Thanks guys/gals!