New Orleans: Fly low and slow over Convention Center to air drop?

"sfb" wrote in message newswZRe.8$Sx4.7@trnddc06...
Katrina is an enormous challenge in logistics. New Orleans is at the
southern end of a very large damaged area. It takes time to clear roads,
inspect bridges, etc. I saw one photo where every single power pole for
a half mile or so was snapped off and lying across the road. Whether
that was a main road is unknown, but clearing that kind of damage takes
time.

You can't just run the National Guard in without food, water, fuel for
vehicles, places to rest else the NG becomes refugees within a couple of
days.

Seems I remember seeing on quite a few occasions the NG bringing all that
stuff with them. Do they now stay at Hiltons and have their meals catered?



wrote in message
ups.com...
I really can't stand the situation that is occuring in the Convention
Center. There are about two thousand at the Convention Center with NO
police or rescue personel onsite. Babies have no milk. At least two
dead bodies are there. An SUV with one police officer drove by and
raced away. One girl has been raped.

You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message newswZRe.8$Sx4.7@trnddc06...
Katrina is an enormous challenge in logistics. New Orleans is at the
southern end of a very large damaged area. It takes time to clear
roads,
inspect bridges, etc. I saw one photo where every single power pole
for
a half mile or so was snapped off and lying across the road. Whether
that was a main road is unknown, but clearing that kind of damage
takes
time.

You can't just run the National Guard in without food, water, fuel
for
vehicles, places to rest else the NG becomes refugees within a couple
of
days.

Seems I remember seeing on quite a few occasions the NG bringing all
that
stuff with them. Do they now stay at Hiltons and have their meals
catered?



wrote in message
ups.com...
I really can't stand the situation that is occuring in the
Convention
Center. There are about two thousand at the Convention Center with
NO
police or rescue personel onsite. Babies have no milk. At least two
dead bodies are there. An SUV with one police officer drove by and
raced away. One girl has been raped.

"sfb" wrote in message news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was far
beyond reasonable.


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message newswZRe.8$Sx4.7@trnddc06...
Katrina is an enormous challenge in logistics. New Orleans is at the
southern end of a very large damaged area. It takes time to clear
roads,
inspect bridges, etc. I saw one photo where every single power pole
for
a half mile or so was snapped off and lying across the road. Whether
that was a main road is unknown, but clearing that kind of damage
takes
time.

You can't just run the National Guard in without food, water, fuel
for
vehicles, places to rest else the NG becomes refugees within a couple
of
days.

Seems I remember seeing on quite a few occasions the NG bringing all
that
stuff with them. Do they now stay at Hiltons and have their meals
catered?



wrote in message
ups.com...
I really can't stand the situation that is occuring in the
Convention
Center. There are about two thousand at the Convention Center with
NO
police or rescue personel onsite. Babies have no milk. At least two
dead bodies are there. An SUV with one police officer drove by and
raced away. One girl has been raped.

Dave Stadt wrote:
"sfb" wrote in message news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was far
beyond reasonable.

It took 9/11 for us to take terrorism seriously. Perhaps now we will
take civil defense seriously. I live in Boston and while we're not
below sea level, a 20' storm surge (let along dirty bomb or attack on
an LNG terminal) would make one hell of a mess. Now I suspect there
will be a lot more people asking the local gov't just what the plan
would be should we be staring down a similar barrel.

-cwk.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave Stadt wrote:
"sfb" wrote in message news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing
roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was far
beyond reasonable.

It took 9/11 for us to take terrorism seriously. Perhaps now we will
take civil defense seriously. I live in Boston and while we're not
below sea level, a 20' storm surge (let along dirty bomb or attack on
an LNG terminal) would make one hell of a mess. Now I suspect there

will be a lot more people asking the local gov't just what the plan
would be should we be staring down a similar barrel.

-cwk.

Hopefully from the current disorganized mess some good will come. NO, LA
and the feds were out smoking dope or doing something other that what they
should have been doing. NY handled 9/11 infinitely better and they had no
warning. Granted, the scale is much different. The response to the most
current disaster after several years of homeland security gibberish is
atrocious.

I finally figured out how Homeland Security decided to deal with a
disaster.

First, they worked to prevent a terrorism attack that would cause a
disaster.

The next part of the plan we saw arrive in the New Orleans area as a
convoy of 16 identical, brand new, unmarked government 18 wheelers.
That carried the mobile morgue. This it the only thing I've seen from
FEMA that looked well planned and arrived on time.

The assumption at Homeland/FEMA has been like 9/11 there probably would
be no survivers, so they concentrated on preparing for mass body
retreival.

d

Isn't the point demanding instant results when things take time and is
often the case, too much time.

We tend to forget many of the challenges like they can't work at night
because of the lack of lights. Driving at night is very dangerous
because of the destruction of stop signs and traffic signals.

People can't even agree on a time line. Katrina hit Monday and there is
video of the NG all over the New Orleans on Friday which seems closer to
four days than six.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message
news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing
roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was
far
beyond reasonable.


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message
newswZRe.8$Sx4.7@trnddc06...
Katrina is an enormous challenge in logistics. New Orleans is at
the
southern end of a very large damaged area. It takes time to clear
roads,
inspect bridges, etc. I saw one photo where every single power
pole
for
a half mile or so was snapped off and lying across the road.
Whether
that was a main road is unknown, but clearing that kind of damage
takes
time.

You can't just run the National Guard in without food, water, fuel
for
vehicles, places to rest else the NG becomes refugees within a
couple
of
days.

Seems I remember seeing on quite a few occasions the NG bringing
all
that
stuff with them. Do they now stay at Hiltons and have their meals
catered?



wrote in message
ups.com...
I really can't stand the situation that is occuring in the
Convention
Center. There are about two thousand at the Convention Center
with
NO
police or rescue personel onsite. Babies have no milk. At least
two
dead bodies are there. An SUV with one police officer drove by
and
raced away. One girl has been raped.

sfb wrote:

Isn't the point demanding instant results when things take time and is
often the case, too much time.

We tend to forget many of the challenges like they can't work at night
because of the lack of lights. Driving at night is very dangerous
because of the destruction of stop signs and traffic signals.

People can't even agree on a time line. Katrina hit Monday and there is
video of the NG all over the New Orleans on Friday which seems closer to
four days than six.

Not only that, it's not like there was NO action between Monday and Friday.
For example:

I don't have all the details, but I do know an AF Combat Controller team
from Hurlburt (Happy Hurbie Airplane Patch to some of us) went in to New
Orleans Airport on Wednesday to open it up for relief flights. Here's the
news release on that, dated 31 August:

HURLBURT FIELD, Fla. - Air Force Special Operations Command will fly an
MC-130 aircraft into New Orleans International Airport tonight with a small
team of special operations forces to work to reopen the runway.

A team of combat controllers and a small medical team will work to establish
operations at the airport, which has no electricity or air traffic control.
Combat controllers are certified air traffic controllers and special
operators who can open airfields deep behind enemy lines or in other
hazardous areas.

The combat controllers will set self-powered lights and other navigational
aids, then function as air traffic controllers with portable radios so that
other military aircraft can land and help evacuate around 2,500 ill, or
injured persons from the New Orleans area.

AFSOC has also flown more than 34 aircraft to Jackson, Miss., to support
Hurricane Katrina relief.

The deployed aircraft include 19 HH-60 Pave Hawk rescue helicopters
specifically designed to find and recover individuals in hazardous areas.
AFSOC has also deployed 11 C-130 aircraft with various special mission
capabilities, including helicopter refueling and the ability to operate
from dirt or unimproved airfields.

AFSOC has sent pararescuemen and combat controllers to Jackson to work in
conjunction with the aircraft. Pararescuemen are highly trained emergency
medical technician special operators. Combat controllers and pararescuemen
are accustomed to operating in the most difficult and hostile conditions
and are trained in numerous special operations skills such as SCUBA and
parachute operations.


--
Saville

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