FAR 91.157 Operating in icing conditions

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...

This seems odd. Why do you suppose the standards are different for IFR
and VFR ("moderate" vs "light or moderate)? Icing affects a pilots
ability to control the aircraft, so I do not see how instrument training
allows one to venture into worse conditions.

VFR pilots are less likely to fly (legally) in to precip or clouds. You got to
have mositure to form ice.

So, if there is an airmet for "light icing", then it is legal for an IFR
pilot to enter the clouds (of course, on a valid IFR flight plan)?

It's illegal for him to operate IFR period.

Ron Natalie wrote:
"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ...

This seems odd. Why do you suppose the standards are different for IFR
and VFR ("moderate" vs "light or moderate)? Icing affects a pilots
ability to control the aircraft, so I do not see how instrument training
allows one to venture into worse conditions.


VFR pilots are less likely to fly (legally) in to precip or clouds. You got to
have mositure to form ice.


So, if there is an airmet for "light icing", then it is legal for an IFR
pilot to enter the clouds (of course, on a valid IFR flight plan)?


It's illegal for him to operate IFR period.

Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds?

Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...


It's illegal for him to operate IFR period.

Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds?

If he is in a case where that reg applies to him, yes. The rules don't
say "in clouds" they say Instrument Flight Rules.

Ron Natalie wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...

It's illegal for him to operate IFR period.

Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds?


If he is in a case where that reg applies to him, yes. The rules don't
say "in clouds" they say Instrument Flight Rules.



If the forecast icing isn't all the way to the ground, why isn't it
legal to file and fly below the clouds and the altitudes with forecast
or known icing?


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...


If the forecast icing isn't all the way to the ground, why isn't it
legal to file and fly below the clouds and the altitudes with forecast
or known icing?

Don't ask me, I didn't write the regulation. Presumably because they have not
put in procedures into the IFR rules to handle, IFR but remain clear of IMC.
They presume that if you are operating IFR you are prepared to enter IMC at any
time.

Ron Natalie wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...


If the forecast icing isn't all the way to the ground, why isn't it
legal to file and fly below the clouds and the altitudes with forecast
or known icing?


Don't ask me, I didn't write the regulation. Presumably because they have not
put in procedures into the IFR rules to handle, IFR but remain clear of IMC.
They presume that if you are operating IFR you are prepared to enter IMC at any
time.



Is this a change in the last five years since I was flying actively?
Prior to that, this was common practice in the northeast. Otherwise, as
I said earlier, light aircraft would essentially be barred from filing
IFR for much of the winter months.


Matt

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:22:44 GMT, "Matthew S. Whiting"
wrote:

Is this a change in the last five years since I was flying actively?
Prior to that, this was common practice in the northeast. Otherwise, as
I said earlier, light aircraft would essentially be barred from filing
IFR for much of the winter months.


There's no change. Don't forget the regulation we've been discussing
applies only to Large and Turbine-Powered Multiengine Airplanes.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message ...

Is this a change in the last five years since I was flying actively?
Prior to that, this was common practice in the northeast. Otherwise, as
I said earlier, light aircraft would essentially be barred from filing
IFR for much of the winter months.

The rule quoted has nothign to do with light non-turbine powered aircraft.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:38:24 GMT, "Matthew S. Whiting"
wrote:

If the forecast icing isn't all the way to the ground, why isn't it
legal to file and fly below the clouds and the altitudes with forecast
or known icing?


It is.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

If ice is forecast in clouds and precip from say 8000 to FL180 then there is
no ice forecast below 8000 and you are free to fly IFR there.

Mike
MU-2





,."Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Ron Natalie wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

It's illegal for him to operate IFR period.

Really? Even if you don't fly in the clouds?


If he is in a case where that reg applies to him, yes. The rules don't
say "in clouds" they say Instrument Flight Rules.



If the forecast icing isn't all the way to the ground, why isn't it
legal to file and fly below the clouds and the altitudes with forecast
or known icing?


Matt