Hurricane relief

Luke Scharf wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
You mean the gunmen who were shooting at the folks trying to fix the
levee?
My brother might be down there helping out (not as a contractor), and if
he's there with someone shooting at him, I hope the police shoot the
shooters first.

Shooting back in self-defense is one thing.

That's what happened in this case.

Following the request from the Louisiana Governor[0][1] and "shooting to
kill" is another. What the hell happened to due process? Without due
process, there is no "rule of law".

Maybe the solution would be to completely eliminate all law enforcement
of
any kind, which would take care of the problems you're concerned about.

No, the constitution must followed. Looters should be arrested as per
established procedure, read their rights, and tried for the crime that
they are alleged to have committed.

Please document for me that that is not being done.

The rule of law cannot exist if the government gives up on due process
and starts "shooting to kill"[0].

I think that phrase does not mean what you think it means.

The National Guard doesn't have any
authority to go around the constitution

Please document for me that that is being done.

-- especially since every member
is sworn to defend the constitution. If the government doesn't hold up
it's end of the constitutional bargain, then this country stands for
nothing.

-Luke


[0]
http://today.reuters.com/investing/f...ondsNews&story
ID=2005-09-02T030459Z_01_N01575002_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-KILL.XML
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/weather_k....ZdVotXZctMgMu
86XKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Govern..._shoot_kill_hu
rricane_survivor_ho_0901.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...9/s1451906.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...763266,00.html
http://news.indiainfo.com/2005/09/02...-violence.html


[1] Sorry I mis-attributed the quote. Sounds like a Bushism, but Google
says that it isn't.

No, it doesn't sound like a Bushism, it sounds like a soundbite fragment
that is resounding throughout the echo chamber, unimpeded by context and
background. Do you honestly think that the Guard troops have had no training
in the legalities of the rules of engagement? Do you honestly think that
those rules and the orders issued were designed with no regard for the law
and the constitution? Do you honestly think...actually that's the problem. I
don't believe that you are thinking this through, honestly or not. Maybe you
could do some research on the full statements by the Governor, the orders
issued, and the training that the Guard receives.

I'm glad you're not in charge.

- Rick

Rick wrote:

No, it doesn't sound like a Bushism, it sounds like a soundbite fragment
that is resounding throughout the echo chamber, unimpeded by context and
background.

It sounds an awful lot like things Bush says from time-to-time --
especially since just shooting lots of people seems to be strategy that
we need to "stay the course" with in Iraq.

Do you honestly think that the Guard troops have had no training
in the legalities of the rules of engagement? Do you honestly think that
those rules and the orders issued were designed with no regard for the law
and the constitution? Do you honestly think...actually that's the problem. I
don't believe that you are thinking this through, honestly or not. Maybe you
could do some research on the full statements by the Governor, the orders
issued, and the training that the Guard receives.

Look, after reading the USA-PATRIOT act and seeing the reports of the
bizarre things that our government has done after 9/11 (Guitanamo Bay,
Abu-Garabe, TSA systematically ignoring my personal 4th amendment rights
on multiple occasions, bizarre popup TFR's enforced by a lot of
anti-aircraft weaponry, the occasional swarm of police officers pulling
guns on my friend and shooting my friend's brother's dog in Hollywood
Florida for no good reason, and, just for the hell of it, some of new
IT-related rules that have come down the pipe lately), I can no longer
trust the government as-a-whole to respect it's citizens. Politicians
giving orders to ignore one more bit of the Bill of Rights is very
believable, and very frightening.

The individual military and police folks that I talk to seem OK, but
with the changes in search & seizure law that I've been observing, their
character is the only thing that keeps them from being dangerous. With
the constitution being ignored a little more each day, idiotic
leadership at the top, "shoot to kill" stupidity in the middle, and a
few normal folks who have to follow orders at the bottom -- what's left
of the restraint and freedom that made this country great?

All I can do is bitch on the Internet and hope to jolt a few other
people out of their complacency so that they will vote more responsibly
the next time around.

-Luke

Luke Scharf wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:

No, it doesn't sound like a Bushism, it sounds like a soundbite fragment
that is resounding throughout the echo chamber, unimpeded by context and
background.

It sounds an awful lot like things Bush says from time-to-time --
especially since just shooting lots of people seems to be strategy that
we need to "stay the course" with in Iraq.

More unsupported allegations. It sounds like you spend too much time
listening to the leftward spin on everything.

Do you honestly think that the Guard troops have had no training
in the legalities of the rules of engagement? Do you honestly think that
those rules and the orders issued were designed with no regard for the
law
and the constitution? Do you honestly think...actually that's the
problem. I
don't believe that you are thinking this through, honestly or not. Maybe
you
could do some research on the full statements by the Governor, the orders
issued, and the training that the Guard receives.

Look, after reading the USA-PATRIOT act and seeing the reports of the
bizarre things that our government has done after 9/11 (Guitanamo Bay,
Abu-Garabe, TSA systematically ignoring my personal 4th amendment rights
on multiple occasions, bizarre popup TFR's enforced by a lot of
anti-aircraft weaponry, the occasional swarm of police officers pulling
guns on my friend and shooting my friend's brother's dog in Hollywood
Florida for no good reason, and, just for the hell of it, some of new
IT-related rules that have come down the pipe lately), I can no longer
trust the government as-a-whole to respect it's citizens. Politicians
giving orders to ignore one more bit of the Bill of Rights is very
believable, and very frightening.

The individual military and police folks that I talk to seem OK, but
with the changes in search & seizure law that I've been observing, their
character is the only thing that keeps them from being dangerous. With
the constitution being ignored a little more each day, idiotic
leadership at the top, "shoot to kill" stupidity

Excuse me for being insulting, but the stupidity here is from people who are
a little too gullible, and from the media who don't bother to do enough
homework and research to explain things carefully.

in the middle, and a
few normal folks who have to follow orders at the bottom -- what's left
of the restraint and freedom that made this country great?

All I can do is bitch on the Internet and hope to jolt a few other
people out of their complacency so that they will vote more responsibly
the next time around.

In other words you are not going to take the time to educate yourself. You
sound like a lefty dittohead.

I think you've brought up an important issue. So many are blaming Bush for
not acting. If laws were in place to give some federal agency the authority
to do absolutely everything that was needed here, folks like you would be
screaming about Ashcroft's theocracy or some such nonsense involving
Brownshirts and Jackboots.

- Rick