Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

When at a longer runway, I might do T&G's if my student just needs a lot of
landing practice, but in those cases, *I* always retract the flaps on the
ground, so that for go around, the student won't have the tendency to reach
for them.

ZikZak wrote:
As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

Matt

On 9/15/05 4:32 PM, in article , "Matt
Whiting" wrote:

ZikZak wrote:
As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

Matt

Because Cessna-172s don't take off very well with full flaps. I suppose you
could add power and then retract the flaps, but then you're rolling with
lots of drag and runway behind you is useless. In any case, it seems to be
conventional to retract-then-power when doing T&G's, and that produces bad
habits.

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

Because Cessna-172s don't take off very well with full flaps. I suppose you
could add power and then retract the flaps, but then you're rolling with
lots of drag and runway behind you is useless. In any case, it seems to be
conventional to retract-then-power when doing T&G's, and that produces bad
habits.

Only those Cessna's with 40 degrees of flaps may be unable to climb.
Cessna's limited to 30 degrees of flaps can and will climb with full
power. You have to know how to "milk" the flaps up as airspeed increases
to fly properly, though.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.

You hand is on the throttle when you're landing. If something comes
into the runway, or you notice some other thing that makes you want to
abort the landing, are you saying you'd let the throttle go, reset the
flaps, then go back to the throttle?

I see touch and goes differently: they are landing practice, but they
are also 'abort the damned landing' practice too. When we (my ownership
partners and I) would safety check each other, we could often call for
a go-round deep in the flare or when on the ground rolling at less than
flying speed. We expected to see the throttle go in first, then worry
about cleaning up the airplane (the airplane being a Mooney).

Tony wrote, "... When we (my ownership partners and I) would safety check
each other, we could often call for a go-round deep in the flare or when on
the ground rolling at less than flying speed. We expected to see the
throttle go in first, then worry about cleaning up the airplane (the
airplane being a Mooney)."

I was taught: Cram it. Climb it. Clean it. Cool it. Call it.

Jon

nrp wrote:

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?


On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.


Only if you are a low-wing pilot. :-)

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Only if you are a low-wing pilot. :-)

Matt

Dang it - & I got that bad habit with only 20 minutes in a
Cherokee........!



On further reflection I do taxibacks instead of T&Gs because I own the
airplane (Tach or hourmeter time means nothing) & I self insure the
hull. I also have had to reskin the LH flap on an older 172 due to
cracking at the trailing edge. I'm not critical of others that do
T&Gs, but on shorter runways I like to be fully psyched up for how to
handle a T/O.

I once did a very strong 90 deg Xwind takeoff in which I just happened
to take the Xwind on the right side, got into the rubbity scrub mode
treating it as a short-field since it was at a higher altitude, but
managed to horse it in the air.

It was my good fortune to not have taken that Xwind on the left or I
probably would have rolled it into a ball. My Xwind technique is
different now and hopefully more correct, but I don't take T/Os for
granted anymore. A T/O is a crosswind first - and what performance is
left over can be used for short or soft field. It was a singular hole
in my pre-private instruction that I missed.

I never have seen the right/left crosswind difference noted by others.
Why not?

On 16 Sep 2005 14:59:04 -0700, "nrp" wrote:

I never have seen the right/left crosswind difference noted by others.
Why not?

It is certainly true that the only time I ever went off the runway on
takeoff was a left crosswind, and I certainly treat left crosswinds
with more respect.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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