Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

nrp wrote:

On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.

Flap extension speed is what? 100 knots? You aren't "beating the hell" out of
the flaps at any speed you're likely to see on the ground. As for
wheelbarrowing, you just landed. Trim is set to keep the nose up. If you don't
do anything at all except get the power on, the plane is simply going to take
off and climb away at sea level.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

George Patterson wrote:

nrp wrote:


On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.


Flap extension speed is what? 100 knots? You aren't "beating the hell"
out of the flaps at any speed you're likely to see on the ground. As for
wheelbarrowing, you just landed. Trim is set to keep the nose up. If you
don't do anything at all except get the power on, the plane is simply
going to take off and climb away at sea level.

Even if I land at an airport with an elevation of 2,000'? :-)

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Even if I land at an airport with an elevation of 2,000'? :-)

The last two words in my post were "at sea level."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

ZikZak wrote:

On 9/15/05 4:32 PM, in article , "Matt
Whiting" wrote:


ZikZak wrote:

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

Matt


Because Cessna-172s don't take off very well with full flaps. I suppose you
could add power and then retract the flaps, but then you're rolling with
lots of drag and runway behind you is useless. In any case, it seems to be
conventional to retract-then-power when doing T&G's, and that produces bad
habits.


This is how I was taught. After the "touch", you first apply full power
to "go" and then retract the flaps. It really isn't hard at all to do.
It doesn't take long at all to get the flaps from 40 to 20, and
taking off with 20 isn't much of a problem. Anyone who can't manage
this, probably shouldn't be flying.

Matt

ZikZak wrote:
As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power.

I did my primary training in Cessna 150s. We always hit the power first. The
switch required constant pressure to keep the flap motor turning, so you would
be a long time on the runway before adding power if you did it the way you describe.

I never did T&Gs in my Maule. Thinking about it, I think it would be dangerous
in that plane.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Recently, ZikZak posted:

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce
bad habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract
flaps before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for
go-around procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned
using T&G's, and when asked to go around they almost always retract
flaps before adding power. This is very bad. My home field is
relatively short, too, so I don't do T&G's with my students.

It sounds like you are dealing with two different issues. Anyone properly
trained will not retract flaps when doing a go-around, regardless of
whether they practice T&Gs at other times. Perhaps during those BFRs, you
have just identified an area where the pilot needs to be reminded about
the difference between the two?

Neil

In this order...
Power UP
Pitch UP
Flaps UP