Kid day at the airport...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:laeXe.376007$xm3.315405@attbi_s21...
Sorry, but I disagree. Any rule that forces me to evade or avoid
basketball-sized clouds with the same urgency as 70-story CBs is stupid.

What "urgency"? You *intentionally* flew your airplane into the cloud.
There would be no urgency at all, except for your choice to approach the
cloud.

Under normal circumstances, a pilot can easily avoid the smallest clouds
without any effort at all. If the clouds are really as small and infrequent
as you are describing, no dramatic maneuvering would be required at all.

I stand to be corrected, but if I remember correctly, you stated in your
ORIGINAL post you were at 4000 feet circling the cloud, which is an IFR
cruise altitude.

No, the puffies were forming at "around 4000 feet." I don't remember the
precise altitude, but it was some odd height, like 3700 feet.

The previous poster erred in even considering the altitude. IFR traffic can
and does fly at any altitude.

Regardless, we were over rural Iowa. Would I have been playing around the
puffies in Chicago airspace? Of course not. But I was in some of the
most unpopulated airspace in the country.

The FARs do not distinguish between Class E airspace in the middle of
nowhere and Class E airspace smack in the middle of a densely populated
area. It's all Class E, and everyone is required to follow the same rules.

I don't think it's possible to compute the odds of a mid-air collision in
this area

Of course it is. You can compute the odds of anything.

let alone one caused by an IFR plane popping out of Yugo-sized cloud 300
feet below his assigned altitude.

Again, of course you can.

In fact, I would guess that the odds of being hit by an asteroid in flight
are about the same.

Even if the computed odds are exceedingly small (and I am positive the odds
are greater than being hit by an asteroid), that doesn't change the legality
of the practice. Furthermore, lots of pilots have relied on the "big sky"
theory of traffic avoidance, and followed it to their doom.

Pete

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:44:22 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

The previous poster erred in even considering the altitude. IFR traffic can
and does fly at any altitude.

Peter,

While it's possible that IFR traffic can fly at any altitude, in my short
flying career, I have never heard of IFR traffic being assigned a VFR
altitude or an altitude other then ending in 1000's of feet.

I have requested an altitude of "opposite traffic" altitude and been
approved, but never have I heard anybody request a VFR altitude. (I.E I was
westbound at 4000 and requested 3000 feet.)

Per http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp7/atc0703.html VFR on top traffic is
treated as VFR and not IFR traffic. Standard separation does not apply and
cloud clearances are exactly the same for VFR on top traffic as VFR over
the top traffic.

While the traffic is IFR in the system, it is flown under VFR rules, and
that IFR traffic cannot enter clouds when he / she is VFR on top.

So, when I posted 4000 feet, that is a standard IFR traffic altitude (even
thousands) as opposed to VFR altitudes that end in 500 (I.E 4500).

So, based on the above reading, I interpret it that even though I am IFR in
the system, as long as I am at a VFR cruising altitude, I cannot penetrate
clouds.

If I could not maintain visual conditions, I would need to notify ATC and
they would probably put me back on an IFR cruising altitude based on
direction of flight.

Allen

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...
While it's possible that IFR traffic can fly at any altitude, in my short
flying career, I have never heard of IFR traffic being assigned a VFR
altitude or an altitude other then ending in 1000's of feet.

First of all, "fly" is not the same as "being assigned". Secondly, IFR
traffic is regularly assigned altitudes "other than ending in 1000's of
feet". I guess you need a longer flying career before you discover this on
your own (hint: it happens most commonly at the beginning and end of an IFR
flight).

Pete

Third, I guess you haven't been flying long enough to hear of a "block"
assignment, where you got your druthers where to fly between the upper and
lower limits of the block.

Jim


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

While it's possible that IFR traffic can fly at any altitude, in my short
flying career, I have never heard of IFR traffic being assigned a VFR
altitude or an altitude other then ending in 1000's of feet.

First of all, "fly" is not the same as "being assigned". Secondly, IFR
traffic is regularly assigned altitudes "other than ending in 1000's of
feet". I guess you need a longer flying career before you discover this
on your own (hint: it happens most commonly at the beginning and end of an
IFR flight).

Pete