Flying Lessons

I'm going to add something that noone else has offered up yet. Go down to
your local flight school, wherever it is, and talk to an instructor, ask
questions.... take notes, you may or may not like what you hear. Think
practical here.

If 3mil is too much to spend for a jet and training, don't bother wiht the
jet. Even if you got one for less then a million, the fixed annual
inspection/maintenance costs are outrageously high, figure in fuel and other
variable operational costs and you can easilly be spending in excess of 2
thousand bux an hour to fly depending on how much you fly the thing.

As far as training... Learn in a single engine piston aircraft, trust me, it
will make you a much safer pilot. Frankly I don't want to fly in the same
piece of sky as a jet with a pilot that has little or no piston experience.
Why do I say that? In the jet you learn how to operate a machine, punch
buttons, occasionally handfly. In the smaller planes you really learn how
to AVIATE, not simply a matter of "driving the airplane" but FLYING the
airplane in an everchanging environment where everyone IS out to get you (or
so you should tell yourself so you keep your head on a swivle to make sure
they miss). Also consider an instrument approach, in a small play you could
easilly have as long as five minutes to execute the inbound portion of the
approach and landing, which means you have five mintues to correct for any
minor deviations in coures and altitude, much easier to learn to fly in
(even then it will feel like you are trying to catch up to the airplane),
cus there WILL be deviaitons in course and altitude, even for a guy with
thousands and thousands of hours of flying. In the jet your inbound course
and landing can happein in less than two minutes, meaning if you "Eff it up
a little" your responses should be more then twice as quick, WITHOUT
overcorrecting, much better to learn this in a small plane, and step it up
to faster and faster planes as you gain profeciency. (Tell me, would you
ever expect success in sacking an NFL quarterback without lots and lots of
practice and intermediate steps?). Figure on around 3-6 months to get your
private pilot and instrument ratings. Once thats out of the way I would
actually suggest you go for a multi-commercial-instrument, its not a route
many people take, but is a very good option, basically you have to learn all
the multi engine manuevers, and execute them to commercial standards, may
have to learn seperate commercial manuevers depending on the particular
aircraft (I know you probably won't have to do a Power Off Precision Landing
in a multi engine plane, but you may need to do a chandel or something
similar if its safe to do so in that particular plane), add on a single
engine instrument approach in there somewhere and you've got your Commercial
Multi Instrument. Regs also require you to have 250 hours (and several
other requirements) to take your commercial checkride, excellent
oppertunities to learn some aviation on your own time without an instructor
holding your hand the entire way, I would hate to see your first solo
instrument approach happen in a Jet. You can easilly get all of this done
in less than a year if you suck it up and do it.

I don't like pilots that are afraid to fly, at the same time I REALLY dont'
like pilots that think they can fly..... Don't let yourself get into these
two catagories, find a nice happy medium of safety minded caution and
confidence in skills, don't be an aviation pussy that is afraid of the
airplane, but at the same time don't be cocky to the point you end up dead,
or worse, end up haveing to live with the fact that you made other people
dead).


Also the advantage of doing the commercial multi route would insure that you
have at least 250 hours by the time you start flying jets (and completing
the appropriate type training course). Consider that you will likely have
to have an instructor or other qualified pilot sitting in the right seat
of the jet to keep the insurance company happy till you get to at LEAST 500
hours total time, and possibly to 1000 hours JET TIME. Having that 250 out
of the way may reduce how long you have to have that seat warmer with out
(and concidentally that seat warmer may like to get paid for his/her time!)

Also consider a multi or single engine turboprop aircraft instead of the
jet, they will likely be cheaper to buy and fly then a jet, and true, you
may not be able to fly coast to coast in a single leg, but you can still do
it a hellova lot faster than driving, AND you can fly into airports a
turbojet/fan may not be able to get in and out of (there are a lot more
runways out there less than 5000 feet long, then there are runways 5000'
long or greater) For this reason my ultimate millionare fun toy would be a
Beech C-90 King Air, reasonably quick, excellent utility, small enough to
fit in most hangers, plus they sound cool.


Damn... i don't post often, but when i do... i get a bit long winded...




"Steve" wrote in message
. ..


I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:11:51 -0700, "nooneimportant" no.spam@me
wrote:


I'm going to add something that noone else has offered up yet. Go down to
your local flight school, wherever it is, and talk to an instructor, ask
questions.... take notes, you may or may not like what you hear. Think
practical here.

If 3mil is too much to spend for a jet and training, don't bother wiht the
jet. Even if you got one for less then a million, the fixed annual
inspection/maintenance costs are outrageously high, figure in fuel and other
variable operational costs and you can easilly be spending in excess of 2
thousand bux an hour to fly depending on how much you fly the thing.

As far as training... Learn in a single engine piston aircraft, trust me, it
will make you a much safer pilot. Frankly I don't want to fly in the same
piece of sky as a jet with a pilot that has little or no piston experience.
Why do I say that? In the jet you learn how to operate a machine, punch
buttons, occasionally handfly. In the smaller planes you really learn how
to AVIATE, not simply a matter of "driving the airplane" but FLYING the
airplane in an everchanging environment where everyone IS out to get you (or
so you should tell yourself so you keep your head on a swivle to make sure
they miss). Also consider an instrument approach, in a small play you could
easilly have as long as five minutes to execute the inbound portion of the
approach and landing, which means you have five mintues to correct for any
minor deviations in coures and altitude, much easier to learn to fly in
(even then it will feel like you are trying to catch up to the airplane),
cus there WILL be deviaitons in course and altitude, even for a guy with
thousands and thousands of hours of flying. In the jet your inbound course
and landing can happein in less than two minutes, meaning if you "Eff it up
a little" your responses should be more then twice as quick, WITHOUT
overcorrecting, much better to learn this in a small plane, and step it up
to faster and faster planes as you gain profeciency. (Tell me, would you
ever expect success in sacking an NFL quarterback without lots and lots of
practice and intermediate steps?). Figure on around 3-6 months to get your
private pilot and instrument ratings. Once thats out of the way I would
actually suggest you go for a multi-commercial-instrument, its not a route
many people take, but is a very good option, basically you have to learn all
the multi engine manuevers, and execute them to commercial standards, may
have to learn seperate commercial manuevers depending on the particular
aircraft (I know you probably won't have to do a Power Off Precision Landing
in a multi engine plane, but you may need to do a chandel or something
similar if its safe to do so in that particular plane), add on a single
engine instrument approach in there somewhere and you've got your Commercial
Multi Instrument. Regs also require you to have 250 hours (and several
other requirements) to take your commercial checkride, excellent
oppertunities to learn some aviation on your own time without an instructor
holding your hand the entire way, I would hate to see your first solo
instrument approach happen in a Jet. You can easilly get all of this done
in less than a year if you suck it up and do it.

I don't like pilots that are afraid to fly, at the same time I REALLY dont'
like pilots that think they can fly..... Don't let yourself get into these
two catagories, find a nice happy medium of safety minded caution and
confidence in skills, don't be an aviation pussy that is afraid of the
airplane, but at the same time don't be cocky to the point you end up dead,
or worse, end up haveing to live with the fact that you made other people
dead).


Also the advantage of doing the commercial multi route would insure that you
have at least 250 hours by the time you start flying jets (and completing
the appropriate type training course). Consider that you will likely have
to have an instructor or other qualified pilot sitting in the right seat
of the jet to keep the insurance company happy till you get to at LEAST 500
hours total time, and possibly to 1000 hours JET TIME. Having that 250 out
of the way may reduce how long you have to have that seat warmer with out
(and concidentally that seat warmer may like to get paid for his/her time!)

Also consider a multi or single engine turboprop aircraft instead of the
jet, they will likely be cheaper to buy and fly then a jet, and true, you
may not be able to fly coast to coast in a single leg, but you can still do
it a hellova lot faster than driving, AND you can fly into airports a
turbojet/fan may not be able to get in and out of (there are a lot more
runways out there less than 5000 feet long, then there are runways 5000'
long or greater) For this reason my ultimate millionare fun toy would be a
Beech C-90 King Air, reasonably quick, excellent utility, small enough to
fit in most hangers, plus they sound cool.


Damn... i don't post often, but when i do... i get a bit long winded...

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will. BTW that
Beech C-90 King Air is a cool looking airplane.










"Steve" wrote in message
...


I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

"Steve" wrote

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will. BTW that
Beech C-90 King Air is a cool looking airplane.

Good points. By the way, the C-90 would be a great choice to work your way
into, get a lot of utility, and build some serious hours that will be needed
to get into the turbojets. The operating costs are much lower, and that
will be important for building time.

Lots of bang for the buck with King Airs. Just ask the NASCAR crowd. Lots
of racing teams use them for their dependable fast transportation, and many
drivers fly their plane, themselves. Good short field performance, good
load carrying, good bad weather capabilities. I think they call it (all of
the flying racing teams as a whole) the redneck airforce, or something like
that! g
--
Jim in NC

In article ,
"Morgans" wrote:

"Steve" wrote

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will. BTW that
Beech C-90 King Air is a cool looking airplane.

Good points. By the way, the C-90 would be a great choice to work your way
into, get a lot of utility, and build some serious hours that will be needed
to get into the turbojets. The operating costs are much lower, and that
will be important for building time.

Lots of bang for the buck with King Airs. Just ask the NASCAR crowd. Lots
of racing teams use them for their dependable fast transportation, and many
drivers fly their plane, themselves. Good short field performance, good
load carrying, good bad weather capabilities. I think they call it (all of
the flying racing teams as a whole) the redneck airforce, or something like
that! g

What I don't like about King Air's is the high approach speed and high
safe single engine operating speed.

"john smith" wrote

What I don't like about King Air's is the high approach speed and high
safe single engine operating speed.

Compared to a Lear? Hummm.

What would the comparison be, between the two of these?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will. BTW that
Beech C-90 King Air is a cool looking airplane.

Good points. By the way, the C-90 would be a great choice to work your
way
into, get a lot of utility, and build some serious hours that will be
needed
to get into the turbojets. The operating costs are much lower, and that
will be important for building time.

Lots of bang for the buck with King Airs. Just ask the NASCAR crowd.
Lots
of racing teams use them for their dependable fast transportation, and
many
drivers fly their plane, themselves. Good short field performance, good
load carrying, good bad weather capabilities. I think they call it (all of
the flying racing teams as a whole) the redneck airforce, or something
like
that! g
--
Jim in NC

Interesting that you bring up the short field ability of the C-90.

I was cleaning up after a XC flight today (See: Hello Dahli) when a C-90B
landed at our flyin-in community airstrip which is 3913 X 60'.

I couldn't see which turnoff he actually made, but based on how quickly he
was back at the parking area after I heard the wheels touch, he had to have
gotten it stopped in at least two thirds (if not half) the length of the
runway.

Jay B

("Steve" wrote)
[snips]
I'm going to add something that noone else has offered up yet....

Damn... i don't post often, but when i do... i get a bit long winded...

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will.


I'm seeing a green light from the tower. g

"My Keyboard!"
"My Keyboard!"

First lesson: Let's work on trimming those posts :-)

Thanks.

Also, not wanting to lose you here at r.a.p, but have you popped in over at
rec.aviation.student yet?

Also also, hold out for the new HondaJet. It was way cool at OSH this year.

[Flying lessons - buying your own jet]
* BUY a Cessna 172/Piper Warrior
* Keep it in your own hanger, or rent space.
* Do this before Oct 1st.
There are people here, and at rec.aviation.owning, who will help you out
with much (free) advise on buying a plane.

* Go through about 4 instructors (in *your* plane) men and women - you'll
eventually find a couple CFI's you like -- knock it out in 40-60 hrs.

* Fly and hour per day 4-5-6 days per week.
* Take some glider training for fun.

* Take some fellow 172 pilots up for rides - they don't need to be a CFI.
They will be PIC (Pilot in Command) so make it clear before you go up what's
what ...CRM (Crew Recourse Management) ...just like the airlines crews.

*Get your PPL and your Instrument by Christmas.
Now you'll have a much better idea what you want to do next ...plus you'll
be a pilot!!

Almost forgot - get your medical out of the way first. If you've got "known"
issues here, you will still be able to fly under the new Sport Pilot Rule -
just not jets.


Montblack

Montblack wrote:

Also also, hold out for the new HondaJet. It was way cool at OSH this year.

Honda hasn't even decided to put it into production yet. If they do, I agree --
it's way cool. But maybe Steve wants to pick up something else in the meantime.

Almost forgot - get your medical out of the way first. If you've got
"known" issues here, you will still be able to fly under the new Sport
Pilot Rule - just not jets.

I agree that the medical should be taken ASAP, but Steve will not be able to fly
Sport Pilot if his application for a medical is rejected.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"George Patterson" wrote

I agree that the medical should be taken ASAP, but Steve will not be able
to fly
Sport Pilot if his application for a medical is rejected.

Right.

I say that step one should be to join AOPA, and in the process learn about
what kind of issues would be a stopper as far as getting a medical is
concerned. Plus, he will need a 1st class medical, to go all of the way to
jets, right?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

I say that step one should be to join AOPA, and in the process learn about
what kind of issues would be a stopper as far as getting a medical is
concerned. Plus, he will need a 1st class medical, to go all of the way to
jets, right?

When I applied to AOPA, they had a policy that you had to have soloed before
joining. They allowed certain exceptions to that rule at the time, and they may
not have the rule anymore, but, on the other hand, it's possible that Steve
cannot join yet.

I just reviewed part 61, and I think all he'd need is a 3rd class. The classes
are basically based on the type of flying you do, not the aircraft you fly. Yes,
if Steve wanted a job as an ATP, he'd need a 1st class; otherwise, no.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.