Help Our UAL Friends

Matt Barrow wrote:

They could not compete PERIOD. Their management was trained and brought up
in the world a heavy regulation and was thus completely out of the water on
running a competitive enterprise.

I think you've hit the main reason. As they grow, companies develop a "corporate
culture" caused by the fact that existing managers tend to promote people who do
things the same way they do. As time goes on, this "culture" may get out of
touch with reality. About the only thing that will change it is a hostile takeover.

I saw this in action at my former place of employ. The company started out
developing projects on a "cost-plus" basis, with money being fronted in advance.
They were put up for sale about 15 years ago and were supposed to develop
competitive practices, but they're still struggling with that. The old "who's
going to fund this" attitude continued to work with their new owner for long
enough that they never got out of it.

They have another new owner now. The CEO just got handed his walking papers.
There's still a little hope.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:122Ye.8139$LV5.1123@trndny02...
Matt Barrow wrote:

They could not compete PERIOD. Their management was trained and brought
up
in the world a heavy regulation and was thus completely out of the water
on
running a competitive enterprise.

I think you've hit the main reason. As they grow, companies develop a
"corporate culture" caused by the fact that existing managers tend to
promote people who do things the same way they do. As time goes on, this
"culture" may get out of touch with reality. About the only thing that
will change it is a hostile takeover.


That's a large factor, but they also get n trouble earlier when they move
out of the enrapreneurial phase and past the growth phase and start hiring
"professional managers" instead of promoting from within. The professionals
are often the ones raised on regulation and bureaucracy. They often do worse
than those who learned the business from the ground up.

A manager who came up with the company is more interested in seeing it
thrive; a "professional" (IME) is mainly concerned with making monthly
numbers, is risk averse and focusing on his bonus.

Look at any of the Fortune level firms that have been around for a hundred
years or more (P&G, for example) and you'll find very few high level people
brought in from outside the company.
--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:122Ye.8139$LV5.1123@trndny02...
Matt Barrow wrote:

They could not compete PERIOD. Their management was trained and brought
up
in the world a heavy regulation and was thus completely out of the water
on
running a competitive enterprise.

I think you've hit the main reason. As they grow, companies develop a
"corporate culture" caused by the fact that existing managers tend to
promote people who do things the same way they do. As time goes on, this
"culture" may get out of touch with reality. About the only thing that
will change it is a hostile takeover.


That's a large factor, but they also get n trouble earlier when they move
out of the enrapreneurial phase and past the growth phase and start hiring
"professional managers" instead of promoting from within. The
professionals are often the ones raised on regulation and bureaucracy.
They often do worse than those who learned the business from the ground
up.

A manager who came up with the company is more interested in seeing it
thrive; a "professional" (IME) is mainly concerned with making monthly
numbers, is risk averse and focusing on his bonus.

Look at any of the Fortune level firms that have been around for a hundred
years or more (P&G, for example) and you'll find very few high level
people brought in from outside the company.
--
Matt

Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
....and on and on and on.

JK

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look at any of the Fortune level firms that have been around for a
hundred years or more (P&G, for example) and you'll find very few high
level people brought in from outside the company.
--
Matt

Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look at any of the Fortune level firms that have been around for a
hundred years or more (P&G, for example) and you'll find very few high
level people brought in from outside the company.
--
Matt

Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

JK

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or
less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

Pay attention yourself; the issue under discussion is HOW the situation came
about.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or
less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

Pay attention yourself; the issue under discussion is HOW the situation
came about.

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

PKB You've gone and appointed yourself net-nanny? The thread
that Orval started was practically addressed to me, a 27 yr UAL vet.
I've been glued to it since and only your appropriate post about
home-grown management prompted me to post a comparison to
the airline, almost as old as soap (P&G).
I have no idea why you got that burr under your saddle.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

I suppose you mean back when they started giving us ESOP
stock instead of COL payraises. Want to buy mine?
'taint worth much.