Help Our UAL Friends

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or
less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

Pay attention yourself; the issue under discussion is HOW the situation came
about.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or
less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

Pay attention yourself; the issue under discussion is HOW the situation
came about.

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

PKB You've gone and appointed yourself net-nanny? The thread
that Orval started was practically addressed to me, a 27 yr UAL vet.
I've been glued to it since and only your appropriate post about
home-grown management prompted me to post a comparison to
the airline, almost as old as soap (P&G).
I have no idea why you got that burr under your saddle.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

I suppose you mean back when they started giving us ESOP
stock instead of COL payraises. Want to buy mine?
'taint worth much.

UAL sold off The Hertz Corporation, Westin Hotels, and Hilton
International Hotels in 1988. It is a bit of a stretch to believe that
raiding the United cash cow 17 years ago is the singular cause of the
current fate of United.

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
news:WKBYe.68943

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive
human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

PKB You've gone and appointed yourself net-nanny? The thread
that Orval started was practically addressed to me, a 27 yr UAL vet.
I've been glued to it since and only your appropriate post about
home-grown management prompted me to post a comparison to
the airline, almost as old as soap (P&G).
I have no idea why you got that burr under your saddle.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

I suppose you mean back when they started giving us ESOP
stock instead of COL payraises. Want to buy mine?
'taint worth much.

"sfb" wrote in message news:P%BYe.4227$yN1.407@trnddc03...
UAL sold off The Hertz Corporation, Westin Hotels, and Hilton
International Hotels in 1988. It is a bit of a stretch to believe that
raiding the United cash cow 17 years ago is the singular cause of the
current fate of United.

A "stretch" is all they have for making childish excuses.



"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
news:WKBYe.68943

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

PKB You've gone and appointed yourself net-nanny? The thread
that Orval started was practically addressed to me, a 27 yr UAL vet.
I've been glued to it since and only your appropriate post about
home-grown management prompted me to post a comparison to
the airline, almost as old as soap (P&G).
I have no idea why you got that burr under your saddle.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

I suppose you mean back when they started giving us ESOP
stock instead of COL payraises. Want to buy mine?
'taint worth much.

"sfb" wrote in message news:P%BYe.4227$yN1.407@trnddc03...
UAL sold off The Hertz Corporation, Westin Hotels, and Hilton
International Hotels in 1988. It is a bit of a stretch to believe that
raiding the United cash cow 17 years ago is the singular cause of the
current fate of United.

Aah, yes, it was Hilton instead of Sheraton and somehow, I had
completly forgotton about Hertz. (senior moment? )
Can you imagine why the once proud airline that started in
aircraft like the Ford Trimoter felt it was only along for the ride?

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
news:WKBYe.68943

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

(snip)

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


Look further and you will find a once great airline that was more or
less
taken over by hotel people and run into the ground.
Also notice that huge (then) golden parachute that one CEO got
when they let him go.
Also notice how they raided the IAM employees overfunded
pension fund for cash to buy another hotel chain.
...and on and on and on.

Proctor and Gamble runs airlines and hotel chains?


For Christ sake, the subject is (was) UAL!
Pay attention. But thanks anyway for the good lead in
to something that has had me ****ed for over 20 years.

Pay attention yourself; the issue under discussion is HOW the situation
came about.

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

I imagine a person with this talent could demand quite a good salary. This
person would not need a union he could make more money on his own.

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

If you can't handle abstractions (that decidedly and distinctive human
characteristic) then start a sub-thread.

PKB You've gone and appointed yourself net-nanny? The thread
that Orval started was practically addressed to me, a 27 yr UAL vet.
I've been glued to it since and only your appropriate post about
home-grown management prompted me to post a comparison to
the airline, almost as old as soap (P&G).
I have no idea why you got that burr under your saddle.

Also, how long has it been since the union owned UAL?

I suppose you mean back when they started giving us ESOP
stock instead of COL payraises. Want to buy mine?
'taint worth much.

"Aluckyguess" wrote in message
...

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...


(snip)

From where I stood, right there on the front line, 'HOW' began
when the hotel people saw a cash cow and took over UAL. When
one of the upper hotel types referred to us mechanics as "overpaid
bellhops," it sure didn't help. My neighbor, a service writer for a
car dealership, had a lot more take home pay than I. I suppose
the satisfaction from being able to maintain and certify a DC-10
for a pea soup fog landing at SFO was supposed to cover the
difference. ( In a way, it did. I sure loved that job. )

I imagine a person with this talent could demand quite a good salary. This
person would not need a union he could make more money on his own.

For a reality check on day two you would probably get to
crawl through the inner reaches of some fuel tank to
replace all of the fuel quantity probes.
There was no equiv. non union job available and the cost of
maintaining calibrated test equipment and a supply of approved
servicable spare parts made being a self contractor unrealistic.
There was no choice but hire on with a major airline.
Also, guess whose labor was contracted out to fix the aircraft
of the fly-by-nighter that was cutting your throat in the marketplace. :-)

Do you suppose that the overfunded IAM pension fund, if left
to draw intrest, would be in much better shape today instead of
being ripped off to buy the Sheraton Hotels and put into the
shape it is? The ESOP buyout was intended to save an airline
that was on a downward spiral. Too bad it didn't work.
I guess when the U logo morphed into a WI it was too late.

Oops, Hilton, not Sheraton, sorry.

(snip)

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:11:53 -0700, "Aluckyguess"
wrote:

I imagine a person with this talent could demand quite a good salary. This
person would not need a union he could make more money on his own.

Unless because this person had to feed the family and a businessman
was able to get him at half the price because although he was a master
of his trade, he wasn't learned in the art of business. If the
tradesman tries to get ahead, they have to strike. They end the
strike when the businessman gives his word to make thing right. If
the businessman needs to get ahead he can slowly screw everyone else
to death.

Now years ago the unionized folks made an agreement with management
that they're reneging on with the infamous bankruptcy. Who cares
about the reason they're skipping. The ****in' pension was part of
the employment package, read: the salary. The company owes it to the
people and bankruptcy shouldn't wipe the obligation away. If the
current and past crop of MBAs were looking at jail time for this
crime, I'll just bet that it wouldn't have happened.

"Jon A" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:11:53 -0700, "Aluckyguess"
wrote:

I imagine a person with this talent could demand quite a good salary. This
person would not need a union he could make more money on his own.

Unless because this person had to feed the family and a businessman
was able to get him at half the price because although he was a master
of his trade, he wasn't learned in the art of business. If the
tradesman tries to get ahead, they have to strike. They end the
strike when the businessman gives his word to make thing right. If
the businessman needs to get ahead he can slowly screw everyone else
to death.

Now years ago the unionized folks made an agreement with management
that they're reneging on with the infamous bankruptcy. Who cares
about the reason they're skipping. The ****in' pension was part of
the employment package, read: the salary. The company owes it to the
people and bankruptcy shouldn't wipe the obligation away. If the
current and past crop of MBAs were looking at jail time for this
crime, I'll just bet that it wouldn't have happened.


How can a business man screw is worker. All the worker has to do is quit and
get another job. Pretty simple.

Aluckyguess wrote:

How can a business man screw is worker. All the worker has to do is quit and
get another job. Pretty simple.



And pretty naive! Company towns (they still exist). Blacklists. A poor
economy with high unemployment.