Fix the high cost [Was:] High Cost of Sportplanes

In article , Richard Riley says...

:"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
.. .
: The more I think about, the more this is a no-brainer. I think the people
: who doubt the viability of the $50,000 sportplane are simply conditioned
: by the marketing propaganda spread by the various commercial interestes
: and their mouthpieces, the magazines.

Some of the doubters are people who've been in the business of making
light airplanes. Been there, done that. Left without the T-shirt.

I encourage you to go forward. Please let us know when the chapter 7
sale is, I could use some more aircraft tools at 3 cents on the
dollar.

Hey Richard I got an airplane company he can buy and put his skills to work and
show me how to get rich. Nows the time to put the money where the mouth is
LOL!!! I've had employees who wanted a raise tell me I'm making a fortune and
then say it only costs you $4,500 to build a kit that sells for $11,000. When I
said "tell ya what ,I'll put you in charge of the bills and buy every kit you
can produce for $5500 .You'll make $1000 per kit plus tour paycheck" .But if you
can't, any overruns come off your $1000. Guess what ...no takers:-)
Everybody is an expert especially those who never hung their neck out to run a
busines.

See ya

Chuck S

Chuck,

I'm not purporting to have some kind of "plan" to show you or anyone else
how to get rich. That's not what I am interested in.

I'm simply stating a fact: sportplane prices are way too high. It is my
opinion that they can and will come down substantially.

I think the silly magazines should have more integrity than simply
cheerleading this opportunism.

If you think that $100,000 is a realistic price for these sportplanes, why
don't you come out and so so?

You said you're selling kits for $11,000. That's about $90,000 less than
these sportplanes are selling for. That is a big difference and I don't see
the logical path from your $11,000 kit being realistically priced, therefore
the $100,000 sportplane must realistically priced.

Regards,

Gordon.



"ChuckSlusarczyk" wrote in message
...
In article , Richard Riley
says...

:"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
. ..
: The more I think about, the more this is a no-brainer. I think the
people
: who doubt the viability of the $50,000 sportplane are simply
conditioned
: by the marketing propaganda spread by the various commercial interestes
: and their mouthpieces, the magazines.

Some of the doubters are people who've been in the business of making
light airplanes. Been there, done that. Left without the T-shirt.

I encourage you to go forward. Please let us know when the chapter 7
sale is, I could use some more aircraft tools at 3 cents on the
dollar.

Hey Richard I got an airplane company he can buy and put his skills to
work and
show me how to get rich. Nows the time to put the money where the mouth is
LOL!!! I've had employees who wanted a raise tell me I'm making a fortune
and
then say it only costs you $4,500 to build a kit that sells for $11,000.
When I
said "tell ya what ,I'll put you in charge of the bills and buy every kit
you
can produce for $5500 .You'll make $1000 per kit plus tour paycheck" .But
if you
can't, any overruns come off your $1000. Guess what ...no takers:-)
Everybody is an expert especially those who never hung their neck out to
run a
busines.

See ya

Chuck S

"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
Chuck,

I'm not purporting to have some kind of "plan" to show you or anyone else
how to get rich. That's not what I am interested in.

I'm simply stating a fact: sportplane prices are way too high. It is my
opinion that they can and will come down substantially.

I think the silly magazines should have more integrity than simply
cheerleading this opportunism.

If you think that $100,000 is a realistic price for these sportplanes, why
don't you come out and so so?

You said you're selling kits for $11,000. That's about $90,000 less than
these sportplanes are selling for. That is a big difference and I don't
see the logical path from your $11,000 kit being realistically priced,
therefore the $100,000 sportplane must realistically priced.

Regards,

Gordon.



There's a BIG difference in a kit from, say Zenith and a completed 601XL. I
don't know what you do for living but labor and its associated costs ain't
cheap. If you are willing to invest your time and your own labor into
building a plane for yourself as I am go a ahead and go for it. Start
building. But to slander the makers of LSAs by calling them price gougers
because they have placed a price on their labor that others are willing to
pay when you can't come up with costs that are even close to what they have
in the aircraft makes you whiny.

First of all, who exactly is willing to pay the going prices for the
sportsplanes?

How many people do you know who have written a check? I think there have
been about enough sales to count on the fingers of one hand.

Second, price-gouging is a fact, not my "whining," as you so inappropriately
put it. (Your own tone is more whine-like than mine has ever been).

I have seen a huge jump in prices of sportplanes here in Canada since the US
rule went into effect. Remember we have had these planes here for years. Two
years ago the retail price of a Tecnam P-92 Echo, which is a two-place
high-wing with a Rotax 912, was CAD $65,000. At the exchange rate at that
time it came to less than US $50,000.

Today that same plane is pushing CAD $100,000 and is selling in the US for
$80,000 in bare-bones trim. Yes the Euro has strengthened since then, but
the inescapable conclusion is that the manufacturers are betting that there
are some desperate medical-lacking pilots who want to fly at all cost and so
they want to squeeze everything they can out of this opportunity.

I am confident that once they realize they have priced themselves out of the
market that they will adjust to a more realistic level. Not only that I
anticipate new entrants who will see an opportunity to make money and will
take it.

But as for yourself, If you are happy with these prices, why don't you put
your money where your mouth is and buy one? It will save you a lot of
building time. But that's besides the point, because I get the feeling that
you are blowing air out your derriere, without actually having looked into
the issue in any meaningful way.

Regards,

Gordon.




"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:hbDYe.70305$7f5.57394@okepread01...

"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
Chuck,

I'm not purporting to have some kind of "plan" to show you or anyone else
how to get rich. That's not what I am interested in.

I'm simply stating a fact: sportplane prices are way too high. It is my
opinion that they can and will come down substantially.

I think the silly magazines should have more integrity than simply
cheerleading this opportunism.

If you think that $100,000 is a realistic price for these sportplanes,
why don't you come out and so so?

You said you're selling kits for $11,000. That's about $90,000 less than
these sportplanes are selling for. That is a big difference and I don't
see the logical path from your $11,000 kit being realistically priced,
therefore the $100,000 sportplane must realistically priced.

Regards,

Gordon.



There's a BIG difference in a kit from, say Zenith and a completed 601XL.
I don't know what you do for living but labor and its associated costs
ain't cheap. If you are willing to invest your time and your own labor
into building a plane for yourself as I am go a ahead and go for it. Start
building. But to slander the makers of LSAs by calling them price gougers
because they have placed a price on their labor that others are willing to
pay when you can't come up with costs that are even close to what they
have in the aircraft makes you whiny.

"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
First of all, who exactly is willing to pay the going prices for the
sportsplanes?

How many people do you know who have written a check? I think there have
been about enough sales to count on the fingers of one hand.

Second, price-gouging is a fact, not my "whining," as you so
inappropriately put it. (Your own tone is more whine-like than mine has
ever been).

I have seen a huge jump in prices of sportplanes here in Canada since the
US rule went into effect. Remember we have had these planes here for
years. Two years ago the retail price of a Tecnam P-92 Echo, which is a
two-place high-wing with a Rotax 912, was CAD $65,000. At the exchange
rate at that time it came to less than US $50,000.

Today that same plane is pushing CAD $100,000 and is selling in the US for
$80,000 in bare-bones trim. Yes the Euro has strengthened since then, but
the inescapable conclusion is that the manufacturers are betting that
there are some desperate medical-lacking pilots who want to fly at all
cost and so they want to squeeze everything they can out of this
opportunity.

I am confident that once they realize they have priced themselves out of
the market that they will adjust to a more realistic level. Not only that
I anticipate new entrants who will see an opportunity to make money and
will take it.

But as for yourself, If you are happy with these prices, why don't you put
your money where your mouth is and buy one? It will save you a lot of
building time. But that's besides the point, because I get the feeling
that you are blowing air out your derriere, without actually having looked
into the issue in any meaningful way.

Regards,

Gordon.

They priced the product where they think it will sell. If they are wrong it
will be them that lose out.

If I wasn't already pretty far into the building process I probably would
buy LSA 601XL.

Gordon Arnaut wrote:
...

You said you're selling kits for $11,000. That's about $90,000 less than
these sportplanes are selling for. That is a big difference and I don't see
the logical path from your $11,000 kit being realistically priced, therefore
the $100,000 sportplane must realistically priced.


Seems like that implies about $90,000 in labor/ancillary materials
like paint and rivets, tools and other logistical costs, like
floorspace to go from kit to completed plane. Seems excessive
but is a plane built from an $11,000 typically comparable to
a 100,000 plane?

--

FF

wrote in message
oups.com...

Gordon Arnaut wrote:
...

You said you're selling kits for $11,000. That's about $90,000 less than
these sportplanes are selling for. That is a big difference and I don't
see
the logical path from your $11,000 kit being realistically priced,
therefore
the $100,000 sportplane must realistically priced.


Seems like that implies about $90,000 in labor/ancillary materials
like paint and rivets, tools and other logistical costs, like
floorspace to go from kit to completed plane. Seems excessive
but is a plane built from an $11,000 typically comparable to
a 100,000 plane?

--



And don't forget those other ancillary materials like engines and avionics.
But I guess we can ignore them they're universally cheap.