Help Our UAL Friends

"John T" wrote in message
...
Montblack wrote:

The company has an obligation to provide benefits and has to fund
the plan to provide for those benefits.

Agreed - however on the back end, not the front end based on outmoded
projections.

Why does the company have an *obligation* to provide benefits?


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:X2AYe.70301$7f5.54144@okepread01...

"John T" wrote in message
...
Montblack wrote:

The company has an obligation to provide benefits and has to fund
the plan to provide for those benefits.

Agreed - however on the back end, not the front end based on outmoded
projections.

Why does the company have an *obligation* to provide benefits?


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:X2AYe.70301$7f5.54144@okepread01...

"John T" wrote in message
...
Montblack wrote:

The company has an obligation to provide benefits and has to fund
the plan to provide for those benefits.

Agreed - however on the back end, not the front end based on outmoded
projections.

Why does the company have an *obligation* to provide benefits?


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky
jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO



And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you over
after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the competition
isn't going to help you much.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ujDYe.70306$7f5.52421@okepread01...


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired
you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky
jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ujDYe.70306$7f5.52421@okepread01...


Because the was the agreement when the employee was hired. If I hired
you
and said I would pay you $10.00/hr and then handed you your first week
paycheck and only paid you $9.00/hr how would you feel about that?

I'd feel like telling them to live up to their agreements or I'd take a
walk.

Since only real estate transactions need be in writing, and even dinky
jobs
often have written stipulations (not a formal contract, but a written
statement), in many states that would be a violation of state law. In
any
case, why would someone be willing to work for such folks?


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension. I compared it to the $10 $9
example.

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise me
a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested
are you guaranteed a pension.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement. There was a
time when one had to work until 65 to collect a pension. No early
retirement or vesting at all.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message ...

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they
promise me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

"sfb" wrote in message news:nZVYe.862$SG3.675@trnddc07...
The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested are
you guaranteed a pension.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement. There was a
time when one had to work until 65 to collect a pension. No early
retirement or vesting at all.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message ...

If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.




You do realize that has nothing to do with what I wrote don't you?

sfb wrote:
The pension plan must specify when you become vested. Only when vested
are you guaranteed a pension.

If the company goes into Chapter 11, your pension can go bye-bye. They can also
rewrite the terms to some extent, even if the company doesn't declare bankruptcy.

Typically, what you will see today is vesting at 5 or 10 years, but may
not collect until you are 65 if you leave before retirement.

Under Federal law, you are partially vested at 2 years and fully vested at 5 years.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ayVYe.76341$7f5.16514@okepread01...


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension.

Contractual obligation.

I compared it to the $10 $9 example.

An entirely different context. Under the scenario you painted in this
instance, the proper move was to complain, then quit if there was no
satisfaction.

Now let me ask you something: Are you being childish for a reason? Did you
get burned by being naive and now are unwilling to face up like an adult?

So far, the points I've seen from so many are more what I'd expect from
adolesants. If that means I'm an asshole, the maybe I am, but there are some
real spoiled brats running loose.


If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

Get a book on contract law, and lookup "impossibility of performance".

If you'd rather a candyass whose shoulder you can cry on after messing up
your worklife/career for 20 years, then that's not me. I treat people in
their 40's like adults, not kids, and I expect that by the time Daddy kicks
them out of the nest they can handle their lives and careers.

Hey, it's a shame your employer "died". but when you started with them YOU
handed them the Vaseline jar.

Just make damn sure your own kids don't make the same mistakes. Better yet,
get them a copy of Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and make them read it.
It's got some ephemeral tales, but the gist is dead on.

Sorry if that comes off like an "asshole", but I've already raised three
kids that were on their way to financial independence since their teens and
I'm not up for raising any more kids, especially ones that are damn near my
own age.




--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt you are just talking out of your ass now. You jumped into a thread you
obviously hadn't read. Just so you know here was the original message I
responded to.


Montblack wrote:

The company has an obligation to provide benefits and has to fund
the plan to provide for those benefits.

Agreed - however on the back end, not the front end based on outmoded
projections.

Why does the company have an *obligation* to provide benefits?

--
John T


My response was based on what looked like John T's belief that there was no
obligation to provide benefits promised.

Where you came up with your version of the thread I have not a clue but as
far as I'm concerned it ends now.




"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ayVYe.76341$7f5.16514@okepread01...


And taking a walk is all good and fine if you find out they screwed you
over after a week. But after 20 years just going to work for the
competition isn't going to help you much.

If it takes you 20 years to figure that out, then you're pretty much
helpless.


--

Matt, Are you just being an asshole for the fun of it. The post that I
posted my original reply to was one that asked the question of why the
carrier had an obligation to pay the pension.

Contractual obligation.

I compared it to the $10 $9 example.

An entirely different context. Under the scenario you painted in this
instance, the proper move was to complain, then quit if there was no
satisfaction.

Now let me ask you something: Are you being childish for a reason? Did you
get burned by being naive and now are unwilling to face up like an adult?

So far, the points I've seen from so many are more what I'd expect from
adolesants. If that means I'm an asshole, the maybe I am, but there are
some real spoiled brats running loose.


If I work somewhere for 20 years and during that entire time they promise
me a pension after 20 years yes I expect them to pay it.

Get a book on contract law, and lookup "impossibility of performance".

If you'd rather a candyass whose shoulder you can cry on after messing up
your worklife/career for 20 years, then that's not me. I treat people in
their 40's like adults, not kids, and I expect that by the time Daddy
kicks them out of the nest they can handle their lives and careers.

Hey, it's a shame your employer "died". but when you started with them YOU
handed them the Vaseline jar.

Just make damn sure your own kids don't make the same mistakes. Better
yet, get them a copy of Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and make them read
it. It's got some ephemeral tales, but the gist is dead on.

Sorry if that comes off like an "asshole", but I've already raised three
kids that were on their way to financial independence since their teens
and I'm not up for raising any more kids, especially ones that are damn
near my own age.




--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO