Taxi Clearance

It is broadcasted on the ATIS. If you do not call for engine start, and
simply call ground to taxi, you WILL be told to hold your position. The
airport is very tight, so they don't want aircraft that do not have
their IFR release blocking access to the runway.

In other words, when you call for start clearance, your IFR release is
coordinated.

Lynne

"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

It is broadcasted on the ATIS.


What is broadcast on the ATIS?



If you do not call for engine start, and
simply call ground to taxi, you WILL be told to hold your position. The
airport is very tight, so they don't want aircraft that do not have
their IFR release blocking access to the runway.

In other words, when you call for start clearance, your IFR release is
coordinated.


So they don't taxi IFR aircraft until they've been released. That's not a
requirement to call ground prior to engine start.

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.

Lynne

On 25 Sep 2005 11:02:02 -0700, "Lynne" wrote:

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.

Lynne

It's not clear to whom you are responding, but if you are claiming that I
am "expecting to get a violation" then your inference is completely wrong.

My question, to which no one has yet responded, was why this mostly ignored
AIM paragraph is present.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.


Or, in other words, there's no requirement to call ground prior to engine
start.

So.. if the ATIS says "contact ground/clearance" prior to engine start,
does that constitute instruction from "air traffic control" which must
be complied with except in an emergency?

and is not obtaining (and complying with any instructions on) the ATIS
failure to obtain all relevant information regarding the proposed flight?

Can you reconcile these concepts (loosely paraphrased from the part 91
rules regarding ops) with what you are saying that there is "no
requirement to call ground prior to engine start" when in some
circumstances there appears to be?

Dave

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.



Or, in other words, there's no requirement to call ground prior to engine
start.

"Dave S" wrote in message
k.net...

So.. if the ATIS says "contact ground/clearance" prior to engine start,
does that constitute instruction from "air traffic control" which must be
complied with except in an emergency?


No. FAR 91.123(b) states, "Except in an emergency, no person may operate an
aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic
control is exercised." Ramps are not areas in which air traffic control is
exercised. Note that a taxi clearance is only required to operate on a
runway or taxiway. If I can taxi on a ramp without contacting ground
control I can certainly start an engine without calling them.



and is not obtaining (and complying with any instructions on) the ATIS
failure to obtain all relevant information regarding the proposed flight?


Not obtaining it might be, not complying with it is not.



Can you reconcile these concepts (loosely paraphrased from the part 91
rules regarding ops) with what you are saying that there is "no
requirement to call ground prior to engine start" when in some
circumstances there appears to be?


If there is a requirement to call ground prior to engine start it will be
found in the FARs. You will find no such requirement there.

The local flying field here has a statement on the ATIS telling departures
to five specific airports to advise ground control five minutes prior to
engine start. It's for flow control purposes, the five airports are those
for which a flow release is required. The only penalty for not calling
ground prior to engine start is the potential fuel wasted on the ground
waiting for the release time.