Gas Prices -- Help at last?

I am reminded of you connecting the number of refineries with the capacity
to produce gasoline when there is no direct connection. You accepted this
as the "Truth" simply because you wanted to. Even when I pointed out that
gasoline production has risen by about a third in the past 20yrs (while
the number of refineries has shrunk) you continue to rant about the
"enviro-nazis" and how they have "prevented" new refineries, when the fact
is that there have been no new refineries because it is more economic to
expand production at existing refineries.

And you continually ignore the fact that this so only because of the
regulatory nightmare our own government has created.

Pay attention now, for here is the Truth, the fundemental reason why
energy is more expensive and why it will stay that way:

HERE IT IS:
****Until recently, only about 25% of the worlds population used any
meaningful amount of energy, now about 60% does.****

Of course, in the long run, energy costs must rise as more of the world
needs it. This is inevitable.

However, that doesn't change the fact that there is no reason for our own
government to accelerate this potentially disastrous economic reality.
Instead of standing in the way of oil production, they should be trying to
expand access to proven oil reserves, and they should be trying to loosen
the fetters of insane environmental lunacy so that more refineries can be
built.

Here is just one tiny, local example of this kind of environmental idiocy:
For over 30 years our airport has been trying to extend Rwy 25. For various
reasons, over that period of time, the project has started and stopped, been
delayed, shot down, and resurrected. Each time it has been brought back to
life, the EPA (and the State-level equivalents) have required a brand new
set of "environmental impact statements." I don't know the exact number,
but well over a dozen complete, multi-year EIS's have been done for this
SINGLE PROJECT, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As of last month, after several years of work, with bulldozers already
pushing dirt around, the FAA and EPA once again asked for a meeting to
"clarify the environmental goals and procedures" with the project, requiring
yet another meeting with airport commissioners, city and state officials.
This required many dozens of hours (at tax-payer expense, of course), for
the umpteen-thousandth time -- and this is for a friggin' RUNWAY EXTENSION
on land that is already owned by the airport, using plans that have been
drawn up for over three decades.

Now can you just imagine what it must take to build a refinery in this
screwed up country?

We should be supporting bills like the one proposed that streamline the
process, yet there continue to be people like you (and others in this group)
who advocate government by misdirection, stalling, and fraud. Since this
seems to go against your known personality traits, I can only guess that
you've found a way to profit from it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You still don't get it. The number of refineries doesn't matter...the
output does.

Mike
MU-2

You still don't get it. The number of refineries doesn't matter...the
output does.

Actually, we do a agree on that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:uCN2f.420540$x96.326280@attbi_s72...
You still don't get it. The number of refineries doesn't matter...the
output does.

Actually, we do a agree on that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Then what is the significance of the fact that no new refineries have been
built.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
news

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:uCN2f.420540$x96.326280@attbi_s72...
You still don't get it. The number of refineries doesn't matter...the
output does.

Actually, we do a agree on that.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Then what is the significance of the fact that no new refineries have been
built.

That total output capacity is down?
--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:uCN2f.420540$x96.326280@attbi_s72...
You still don't get it. The number of refineries doesn't matter...the
output does.

Actually, we do a agree on that.

That's good! It's nice to see people get along and agree on something.

Here's some numbers you can pick apart:

"In 1981, the U.S. had 324 refineries with a total capacity of processing
18.6 million barrels of crude per day. Today just 149 refineries have a
daily capacity of 16.8 million barrels."

http://www.investors.com/editorial/I...0051010&view=1


--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"In 1981, the U.S. had 324 refineries with a total capacity of
processing 18.6 million barrels of crude per day. Today just 149
refineries have
a daily capacity of 16.8 million barrels."

If we truly have a refinery shortage, why aren't people waiting in lines to
buy fuel?

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

"In 1981, the U.S. had 324 refineries with a total capacity of
processing 18.6 million barrels of crude per day. Today just 149
refineries have
a daily capacity of 16.8 million barrels."

If we truly have a refinery shortage, why aren't people waiting in lines
to buy fuel?
Read the article; it states _why_ quite clearly.

It also gives a good picture of the trend.
--
Matt

---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

"In 1981, the U.S. had 324 refineries with a total capacity of
processing 18.6 million barrels of crude per day. Today just 149
refineries have
a daily capacity of 16.8 million barrels."

If we truly have a refinery shortage, why aren't people waiting in
lines to buy fuel?
Read the article; it states _why_ quite clearly.

It also gives a good picture of the trend.

Must have missed that - perhaps it was buired in all that stupid whiney
"banana" tripe.

So - again - what is the reason we aren't waiting in lines?

JohnH wrote:

"In 1981, the U.S. had 324 refineries with a total capacity of
processing 18.6 million barrels of crude per day. Today just 149
refineries have
a daily capacity of 16.8 million barrels."


If we truly have a refinery shortage, why aren't people waiting in lines to
buy fuel?

Because the increase in prices has stabilized the demand, for the moment
anyway. Lines will appear in the very near future, just as rolling
blackouts and brownouts began to appear a few years ago. We are running
out of energy generating capacity, be it liquid fuels or electricity.
We're just now seeing the leading edge of this problem, but if we don't
begin to dramatically increase production capacity or increase
conservation at a rate to keep the demand at current levels, we'll have
some serious issues in less than five years.


Matt