Comments on FAA NPRM urgently needed

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:05:38 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

However, it's certainly not a stretch to imagine that if the FAA is
successful in making permanent the DC area ADIZ, they would be pressured to
create similar ADIZ's elsewhere.

Oh, you mean like the 'permanent Temporary Flight Restriction over
Disneyland that does nothing to enhance security:

http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/TFR.cfm?list=all
3/2123 - FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ANAHEIM, CA. EFFECTIVE 0303182000
UTC (MARCH 18 AT 1200 LOCAL) UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO
RESTRICTIONS DETAILED IN SECTION 352 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-7, AND 14
CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS. AIRCRAFT FLIGHT
OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED AT AND BELOW 3,000 FEET AGL, WITHIN A 3
NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS OF THE DISNEYLAND THEME PARK
(334805N/1175517W OR THE SEAL BEACH /SLI/ 067 DEGREE RADIAL AT 6.7
NAUTICAL MILES. THIS RESTRICTION DOES NOT APPLY TO (A) THOSE
AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY ATC FOR OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY PURPOSES,
INCLUDING AIRCRAFT ARRIVING OR DEPARTING FROM AN AIRPORT USING
STANDARD AIR TRAFFIC PROCEDURES; (B) DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW
ENFORCEMENT, OR AEROMEDICAL FLIGHT OPERATIONS THAT ARE IN CONTACT
WITH ATC. THOSE WHO MEET ANY OF THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA MAY APPLY
FOR A WAIVER TO THESE RESTRICTIONS: (A) FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES
OF THE VENUE INCLUDING THE TRANSPORTATION OF EQUIPMENT OR
OFFICIALS OF THE GOVERNING BODY; (B) FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY
PURPOSES OF THE VENUE. INFORMATION REGARDING WAIVER APPLICATIONS
CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE FAA WEBSITE AT
HTTP://WWW.FAA.GOV/ATS/ATA/WAIVER, OR BY CALLING 571-227-1322. 18
MAR 20:00 UNTIL UFN

Locate on Map Printable WAC/Sectional Printable GNC [No Labels]

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
Oh, you mean like the 'permanent Temporary Flight Restriction over
Disneyland that does nothing to enhance security: [...]

No, of course not. And I also don't mean like the new Prohibited Area that
was placed over the Bangor Navy sub base here in Washington State. Nor do I
mean like the proposed Prohibited Area over another Navy installation on the
East Coast (St. Mary's? sorry...I forget the exact name).

Oh, wait...you're right, I DO mean exactly like those.

By the way, those airspace restrictions should give some insight into just
how likely it is any comments at this point in the rule-making will change
the direction the FAA is headed. For example, the response to the NPRM for
the Bangor Prohibited Area was well over 90% against any restrictions there
at all, most comments including a number of well-reasoned and clearly-stated
objections.

Those still with enough energy to put up the good fight, feel free to
comment. But I hope no one thinks it's going to change anything at this
point. The FAA has demonstrated quite clearly what they think of the NPRM
process: it's just some procedural hand-waving they are required by law to
go through, and they need not actually pay any attention whatsoever to the
feedback they receive through it.

Pete

It's ridiculous. This is the United States of America for God's sake,
not the Soviet Union... or North Korea. What is it going to take to
make people realize that unless we take a stand for something we will
fall for anything.

This ADIZ (or any ADIZ for that matter) will not prevent anything it
will only increase the workload of ATC and FCC around Washington.
If we were serious about increasing security we would tigten the
borders and spend the effort on checking out some non-US citizens
already in this country and what they are up to.

Adding useless burdens to pilots will not increase national security
except in the minds of bueruecrats and those ignorant of aviation.


PokerGTA.com wrote:

You actually think that making the ADIZ permanent is bad?

How?

Oh GET REAL! wink Ya know the terrorists are really looking to knock-off,
Mickey!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Good post! I already have, submitted mine (including letters to our Reps &
Senators in our area)... Gotta try at least!

Though I got to say I was more than a little bit let-down to see that
provisions of the 'un'-Patriot Act were made permanent (the lady in the
harbor must be hanging her head down a little lower after that one :0( ).
So, I'm hoping for the best on the Wash DC ADIZ situation.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Cecil Chapman wrote:
Oh GET REAL! wink Ya know the terrorists are really looking to knock-off,
Mickey!

Wait. I thought Mickey *was* the terrorist... I'm so confused...


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
-- Brian Kernigan

J. Severyn wrote:

"PokerGTA.com" wrote in message
oups.com...

Cap, we are talking about the airspace in the DC area. You are
referring to all of the airspace class B and C. A little
extreme....no?


By the way what are you Capt. of?


Not extreme at all. You are too trusting of the govt bureaucracy. If the DC
area is made permanent you can bet that they will attempt to do the same
with Class B and maybe Class C. Just look at Chicago. The mayor has
repeatedly asked the govt to "protect" the area with airspace
connfigurations like D.C.

It will spread like a plague.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security,
deserve neither liberty or security." -- Benjamin Franklin

This country is slowly becoming a military state. At the current pace,
by this time next century, the Bill of Rights will have been repealed.
(Rather, the rest of the Bill of Rights will have been repealed.)

This is just one more example of it. It only seems to be an "aviation
only" issue on the surface. The ramifications run much deeper. It
won't be long before you will need to stop and show your papers to enter DC.

If the ADIZ over Northern Virginia, Maryland, and DC is made permanent,
a precedent will have been set that will allow other cities to do the
same. The most frustrating part about it is that it does absolutely
nothing to improve security. Like the majority of the airport security
checks, it's just to make the average person feel safer. If someone
wanted to hijack a plane and fly it into the White House, they could do
it just as easily today as they could have five years ago. Anyone who
thinks that the airport security checks and ADIZ do anything to prevent
that is a blind fool.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"When you find yourself saying ``There's no way this can
happen,'' . . . I call this an Alice-in-Wonderland bug."
-- Daniel Mocsny

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:33:02 -0400, "Mark T. Dame"
wrote in ::


"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security,
deserve neither liberty or security." -- Benjamin Franklin

This country is slowly becoming a military state. At the current pace,
by this time next century, the Bill of Rights will have been repealed.
(Rather, the rest of the Bill of Rights will have been repealed.)

If the GOP continues to occupy the Executive branch, have the majority
in both houses of Congress, and GOP Justices dominate the Judicial
branch, it won't take but a few more years for the Bill Of Rights to
be supplanted by mandatory church attendance with the priests publicly
molesting our children under the guise of a Faith Based Initiative.
:-(

kontiki wrote:

It's ridiculous. This is the United States of America for God's sake,
not the Soviet Union... or North Korea. What is it going to take to
make people realize that unless we take a stand for something we will
fall for anything.

The problem is that our liberties are being eroded away so slowly that
most people don't notice it. It's being done on a generational scale.
Each generation takes away a few more liberties. The change is so small
and incremental that no particular generation gets worked up enough to
stop it.

Or, put a better way, each generation grows up with certain
restrictions. They add a few more, but not enough to hurt. The next
generation grows up with the new restrictions, but never knew anything
different, so they aren't bothered by it. And the cycle repeats.

It's not a conspiracy, just a gradual complacency that grows over
generations. Reasonable sounding people propose new laws that sound
perfectly reasonable to the average person. (Of course we need to
outlaw assault rifles! No one could possibly need one of those for any
legal purpose. They're just instruments of murder! Outlawing them will
make you safer and it doesn't infringe on your rights at all because
you're a reasonable law abiding citizen. You would never need an
assault rifle!)

The whole ADIZ issue is exactly like the assault rifle ban. It's
something the sounds reasonable to people who don't take the time to
think about it. The assault rifle ban doesn't make anyone safer. Joe
Sixpack walking to his car from the baseball stadium isn't going to be
mugged and killed by an assault rifle: his attacker will use a knife or
cheap .22 or .38 caliber pistol. Likewise, the ADIZ isn't going to
prevent anyone from hijacking an airliner. It's not going to prevent
the hijacked plane from flying into the a building in downtown DC. At
best, it provides a false sense of security for a few people at the
inconvenience and expense of many more people. At worst, it's downright
dangerous as it is a large increase in the ATC load for the area. If
I'm flying from Leesburg to Gaithersburg on a severe clear day, why
should I have to bother Dulles Approach? They've got more important
things to do, like the thousands of passengers flying into and out of
Dulles.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Perl is designed to make the easy jobs easy and the hard jobs
possible."
-- Larry Wall

Larry Dighera wrote:

If the GOP continues to occupy the Executive branch, have the majority
in both houses of Congress, and GOP Justices dominate the Judicial
branch, it won't take but a few more years for the Bill Of Rights to
be supplanted by mandatory church attendance with the priests publicly
molesting our children under the guise of a Faith Based Initiative.
:-(

Be careful. It's not the GOP by itself. The Republicans erode your
liberties from one side and Democrats from the other. They are both guilty.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"I don't know if this will work under MS-Windows, but anyone who runs
Windows without a mouse deserves to be flogged with noodles."
-- Daniel Mocsny