Radio Procedure - Runway ID

Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Jose wrote:

Well, in all fairness, what =should= we trust instructors for?

Signatures.

Great answer!

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Well, there is an apparent local rule in my neck of the woods
where
if there's a control tower, no leading "zero." Nontowered
field
you must use it.


What is the local governing body that enforces this "rule"?


No gov't needed in the Land of Oz at my field and the CFIs. Well,
exaggeration, but I thought through my actual in-flight dealings,
you ATC folk could spot the jest in my post, though true story in
fact.

Fred F.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Gerald Sylvester" wrote in message
m...

0.13 seconds to completely avoid any confusion whatsoever. Are
you saying that pilots should also read back clearances by
saying their call sign first rather than last?
No one is perfect, even you. The 0.13 seconds is well worth it.
Get a grip.


The leading zero is a source for potential confusion. If someone
transposes digits "runway zero two" becomes "runway two zero". If proper
procedures are used "runway two" cannot be transposed as anything and 0.13
seconds are saved as a bonus.

......and someone said somthing about justification using...???

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:47:32 GMT, "Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com
wrote:

Now, I was calling the runway as 02, like in "....33Xray, turning left base,
runway Zero-Two, Inyokern." Over the radio comes a voice to admonish me
that, "...there is no zero in front of the two." Never wanting to rankle a
fellow pilot, I dropped the zero -- well, most of the time, anyway.
Thirty-year-old habits are hard to break.

Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

Note that Zero Two is a particular case, since the reciprocal is Two
Zero. The locals may have found (as I find) that there's a tendency to
confuse these two.

My home aport is 02/20, and I have learned to say Runway Two when
landing to the north, and Two Zero when landing to the south. I find
it's a great help.

I would not have a similar problem with 03/19.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Cub Driver wrote:
Now, I was calling the runway as 02, like in "....33Xray, turning left base,
runway Zero-Two, Inyokern." Over the radio comes a voice to admonish me
that, "...there is no zero in front of the two." Never wanting to rankle a
fellow pilot, I dropped the zero -- well, most of the time, anyway.
Thirty-year-old habits are hard to break.

Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

Note that Zero Two is a particular case, since the reciprocal is Two
Zero. The locals may have found (as I find) that there's a tendency to
confuse these two.

My home aport is 02/20, and I have learned to say Runway Two when
landing to the north, and Two Zero when landing to the south. I find
it's a great help.


My home airport (KUZA.. Rock Hill, SC) has runway 02/20 also. I have always
prefaced runway two with the zero. Not only that, I include the name of the
place twice in a transmission. ("Rock Hill traffic, Cessna 417 entering a left
downwind for runway zero two, Rock Hill.") I know the purists don't approve,
but i think of how many times I've listened to an announcement on the radio
where the location name was lost in transmission... either stepped on or I
wasn't paying attention. Besides, what's an addition two words in the interest
of clarity?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Cub Driver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
news
My home aport is 02/20, and I have learned to say Runway Two when
landing to the north, and Two Zero when landing to the south. I find
it's a great help.

I would not have a similar problem with 03/19.

Curved runway? ;-)

We all know you meant to type 1/19 or 3/21...

N93332 opined

"Cub Driver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
news
My home aport is 02/20, and I have learned to say Runway Two when
landing to the north, and Two Zero when landing to the south. I find
it's a great help.

I would not have a similar problem with 03/19.

Curved runway? ;-)

No, he is in an area where the isogonic lines are real close together.

We all know you meant to type 1/19 or 3/21...




-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

Howdy!

In article ,
Gerald Sylvester wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Much like calling yourself "Skyhawk november niner eight zero one victor"
instead of "Skyhawk niner eight zero one victor".

That's nonsense. You must say the november. What country do you live
in? Oh, you must have forgotten that there are other countries than the
US. Don't assume everyone here lives in the US. Plenty of non-US
pilots here too.

Mr. McNicoll could have cited the AIM, 4-2-4.a.3 where it says:

Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or
manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the
registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model
is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
Alpha.

Naturally, that only applies specifically to operations where the AIM
has any force, moral or legal. Your mileage will likely vary.

yours,
Michael
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/wwap/

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...

Mr. McNicoll could have cited the AIM, 4-2-4.a.3 where it says:

Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or
manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the
registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model
is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
Alpha.

Naturally, that only applies specifically to operations where the AIM
has any force, moral or legal. Your mileage will likely vary.


The AIM hasn't any force, legal or otherwise.

Howdy!

In article .net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...

Mr. McNicoll could have cited the AIM, 4-2-4.a.3 where it says:

Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or
manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the
registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model
is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four
Alpha.

Naturally, that only applies specifically to operations where the AIM
has any force, moral or legal. Your mileage will likely vary.


The AIM hasn't any force, legal or otherwise.

OK. Then what is the basis for your assertion that the November is
not necessary? Would you care to back it up with a documentary basis,
or are we simply supposed to take your word for it?

Pragmaticly, the imperative statements in the AIM tend to be taken
as prescriptive. That gives it a degree of "force". To assert otherwise
is narrowly pedantic in an unproductive way.

yours,
Michael



--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/wwap/