No plan survives contact with the enemy...

"paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Filed KGYY Niles V7 Thorr OBK V228 KMSN.

I mostly wanted to see what Chicago would give me (curiosity) - also
the filed route would have been a little shorter and smoother than
flying around the southwest side of the Class B.

Clearance was vectors to BAE. Actual was over the lake until past
Kenosha (KENW) then pretty direct to KMSN.


You picked up the north departure track, radar vectors to BAE or PETTY.
You'd be heading north until leaving Chicago approach, the
Wisconsin/Illinois state line. You also filed an outbound route over FARMM,
an arrival fix. You should file something that will pick up the west
departure track; DPA, SIMMN, HINCK.

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
You picked up the north departure track, radar vectors to BAE or PETTY.
You'd be heading north until leaving Chicago approach, the
Wisconsin/Illinois state line. You also filed an outbound route over FARMM,
an arrival fix. You should file something that will pick up the west
departure track; DPA, SIMMN, HINCK.

Is there any way we non-controllers can find this stuff out, except by
experience?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Don't you just hate them? Don't you just wanna break their ribs,
cut their backs open and pull their lungs out from behind?
-- Ina Faye-Lund, on script kiddies

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Is there any way we non-controllers can find this stuff out, except by
experience?


Practically none. The A/FD has some preferred IFR routes, but they're
primarily high altitude routes between hubs. A study of them can held
discern which are the arrival routes for a location and thus which to avoid
if you're departing that area.

In article . net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Is there any way we non-controllers can find this stuff out, except by
experience?


Practically none. The A/FD has some preferred IFR routes, but they're
primarily high altitude routes between hubs. A study of them can held
discern which are the arrival routes for a location and thus which to avoid
if you're departing that area.

For the larger metropolitan areas, I've found that DUATS will sometimes
suggest departure routes when you use it's flight-planning feature.

-- Dane

On 10/17/2005 11:33, Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
You picked up the north departure track, radar vectors to BAE or PETTY.
You'd be heading north until leaving Chicago approach, the
Wisconsin/Illinois state line. You also filed an outbound route over FARMM,
an arrival fix. You should file something that will pick up the west
departure track; DPA, SIMMN, HINCK.

Is there any way we non-controllers can find this stuff out, except by
experience?



We have a similar problem getting out of Sacramento Executive airport.
My CFII said that he went to the tower and got a list of preferred
routes from their secret list.

When I complained that this shouldn't be a secret, he agreed and
offered only that this is an area that should be done better.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA