IFR/Flight Following -- ATC Preferences?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net:


"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

The NTSB report refers to a descent into the water caused by spatial
disorientation.

A simple Altitude Alert from a controller could have reminded him to
look at his altimiter and VSI and realize that he was pointed into
the water instead of into the Horizon, potentially yeilding different
results.


Would an altitude alert end his disorientation? Why would the
controller issue an altitude alert? He was operating VFR, he wasn't
required to hold any particular altitude.

It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his disorientation
- which neither of us know for sure.

From what I hear on the radio, flight following is often a lot more
than just traffic alerts...


Like what? What do you hear on the radio?

Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and
brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many
controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they
can.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his
disorientation
- which neither of us know for sure.


Why would the controller issue the altitude alert?



Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings and
brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements! Many
controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any way they
can.


But that's unrelated to flight following, that comes from just being on the
frequency.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net:


"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

It might have. It largely depends on the exact nature of his
disorientation
- which neither of us know for sure.


Why would the controller issue the altitude alert?

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will
issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm. I also
suspect that in the Boston area, a pilot might be instructed to advise
prior to altitude changes, creating a query if he had not. I agree that
an official Altitude Alert such as those you might get for being 200'
below an assigned altitude on an IFR route would not apply here. But I
have been asked to confirm airport in sight when descending VFR with
flight following and even this could have woken JFK Jr. up...

It might not have made a difference. Or it might have.

Everything from weather and turbulence reports to personal greetings
and brief personal conversations - even sports score announcements!
Many controllers seem friendly and are happy to assist pilots in any
way they can.


But that's unrelated to flight following, that comes from just being
on the frequency.

I'm not sure I get your point here. Do most pilots follow frequencies
as they traverse sectors so that they can listen for other people's
pireps and traffic alerts? I always found it easier to just ask for
advisories.

Judah wrote:



I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will
issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm.

Not while you are VFR.

Newps wrote in news:j7-dnWQG7ogqsPneRVn-
:



Judah wrote:



I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will
issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm.

Not while you are VFR.

Hmmm. I remember a specific instance during my VFR training that an
instructor warned me to be careful about coming down too fast because it
would cause an alerts with ATC... For some reason, since I know you to be a
controller, I have more faith in your response.

That's what I love about this business... There are so many people who
claim to be experts who take information about a situation, generalize it,
and turn it into definitive truth for all situations.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

I remember a specific instance during my VFR training that an
instructor warned me to be careful about coming down too fast because it
would cause an alerts with ATC...

Class B?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..

Class B?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..

Class B?


A rapid descent at low altitude can generate an MSAW alarm but VFR aircraft
are generally assigned a code from a block that is MSAW inhibited.

Judah wrote:
Newps wrote in news:j7-dnWQG7ogqsPneRVn-
:



Judah wrote:



I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will
issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm.

Not while you are VFR.


Hmmm. I remember a specific instance during my VFR training that an
instructor warned me to be careful about coming down too fast because it
would cause an alerts with ATC... For some reason, since I know you to be a
controller, I have more faith in your response.

When you are VFR the computer will not give low altitude alerts.

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I believe a controller will
issue an alert if a pilot is descending faster than 1700 fpm.


Rate of descent has nothing to do with it. The controller is required to
issue an alert if he is aware the aircraft is at an altitude which, in the
controller's judgment, places it in unsafe proximity to terrain or
obstructions. Since Kennedy was over water it seems unlikely terrain or
obstructions were a factor.



I also suspect that in the Boston area, a pilot might be instructed to
advise
prior to altitude changes, creating a query if he had not. I agree that
an official Altitude Alert such as those you might get for being 200'
below an assigned altitude on an IFR route would not apply here. But I
have been asked to confirm airport in sight when descending VFR with
flight following and even this could have woken JFK Jr. up...


And if he'd been asleep a wakeup call may have saved him, but I don't think
a low altitude alert would have relieved him of vertigo.



I'm not sure I get your point here. Do most pilots follow frequencies
as they traverse sectors so that they can listen for other people's
pireps and traffic alerts? I always found it easier to just ask for
advisories.


The point is those things are unrelated to flight following.