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ILS critical area when the tower is closed?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 21st 05, 07:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
wrote in message news:cjlgf.4216$pF.687@fed1read04...

Not so, Steve. It can cause control problems and certainly adversely
affect an autoland. That is why your handbook contains a caveat about
such approaches.

Approach couplers and autoland systems are weather independent.~



You're mistaken. There's no need for approach couplers and autoland systems
when the weather is good. It's not a problem because the pilots can see.


Well, okay, Steve. When I flew that equipment we often did autolands in
good weather as part of the continuing certification of the system for
CAT III operations. And, an air carrier flight could be going into a
non-towered airport using the ILS when the weather is "iffy" VFR.

The "need" to use couplers and perhaps autoland systems is determined by
the carrier and it POI.
  #3  
Old November 21st 05, 08:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?


"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

The airlines will always fly the ILS if there is one up and running. They
are required to.


Do you suppose you could cite that requirement? I've known many an airline
flight to do a visual approach when there was a perfectly good ILS approach
available.


  #4  
Old November 21st 05, 08:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?

Newps wrote:

The airlines will always fly the ILS if there is one up and running.
They are required to.


Is this a FAR requirement or airline's operational procedural requirement?

--
Peter
  #5  
Old November 21st 05, 08:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?


"Peter R." wrote in message
...

Is this a FAR requirement or airline's operational procedural requirement?


Neither.


  #6  
Old November 22nd 05, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Peter R." wrote in message
...

Is this a FAR requirement or airline's operational procedural requirement?



Neither.


91.129 requires that the ILS be followed at a Class D airport. It does
not require that the full procedure be flown. If cleared for a visual
to an ILS runway, for example, the 121 crew must have the ILS tuned and
identified and use it once lined up with the runway.

Further, this 91.129 requirement is included in every carrier's flight
operations policy manual (a POI-approved document) to be applied for any
runway end with an operating ILS, Class D or not.
  #7  
Old November 22nd 05, 05:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?


wrote in message news:rbwgf.4658$pF.1342@fed1read04...

91.129 requires that the ILS be followed at a Class D airport. It does
not require that the full procedure be flown. If cleared for a visual to
an ILS runway, for example, the 121 crew must have the ILS tuned and
identified and use it once lined up with the runway.


The requirement in FAR 91.129 is that a large or turbine-powered airplane
approaching to land on a runway served by an ILS must fly at an altitude at
or above the glide slope. The claim by Newps was; "The airlines will always
fly the ILS if there is one up and running. They are required to."


  #8  
Old November 22nd 05, 09:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

wrote in message news:rbwgf.4658$pF.1342@fed1read04...

91.129 requires that the ILS be followed at a Class D airport. It does
not require that the full procedure be flown. If cleared for a visual to
an ILS runway, for example, the 121 crew must have the ILS tuned and
identified and use it once lined up with the runway.



The requirement in FAR 91.129 is that a large or turbine-powered airplane
approaching to land on a runway served by an ILS must fly at an altitude at
or above the glide slope. The claim by Newps was; "The airlines will always
fly the ILS if there is one up and running. They are required to."


I didn't infer that he meant the full procedure. But, perhaps he did.
Newps?
  #9  
Old November 21st 05, 08:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?



Peter R. wrote:

Newps wrote:


The airlines will always fly the ILS if there is one up and running.
They are required to.



Is this a FAR requirement or airline's operational procedural requirement?


Both. The FAA makes sure the airline puts it into their ops specs. If
there is an operating ILS to the runway that they are landing on they
have to use it. If a controller clears pretty much any jet with no
restrictions on the size of the pattern almost without fail they will
turn final at the outer marker.
  #10  
Old November 21st 05, 08:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default ILS critical area when the tower is closed?


"Newps" wrote in message
...

Both. The FAA makes sure the airline puts it into their ops specs. If
there is an operating ILS to the runway that they are landing on they have
to use it. If a controller clears pretty much any jet with no
restrictions on the size of the pattern almost without fail they will turn
final at the outer marker.


Please cite the applicable FAR.


 




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