Aircraft tax question

Looks guys.., why start calling names.., I mean, does it make your stance
any stronger..?? Frankly, this tread started out with the question of
buying an aircraft and paying a tax. Both of you (and the other bystander)
have moved the subject over to a discussion of an "income" tax, as apposed
to a simple fee, licensing, and/or a property tax issue.., and you are
correct..! However, the subject of whether an "individual", as opposed to a
"business".., has a "liability" to pay a tax on the smiple purchase and
operation of an aircraft is getting your balls in an uproar. True again,
the 16th amendment (as ratified.., another subject?) does give congress the
authority to levy and collect a tax on "incomes", but "income" in this case
is NOT derived from the purchase or ownership of an aircraft..., unless it
is used in a business..!! Oh, and by the way, I have a copy of the
incorporation papers for the IRS in the state of Delaware in front of me as
I write (smile) which gives it some authority to act as an "agency" with
limited powers to collect taxes with regards to alcohol, tobacco, and
firearms since it's realignment with the DEA, BATF some years ago. Please
keep searching the IRS code for the definition of "income"..!! Now.., back
to the subject 45 treads back..., and no name calling..!!

81mm wrote:
Looks guys.., why start calling names.., I mean, does it make your stance
any stronger..?? Frankly, this tread started out with the question of
buying an aircraft and paying a tax. Both of you (and the other bystander)
have moved the subject over to a discussion of an "income" tax, as apposed
to a simple fee, licensing, and/or a property tax issue.., and you are
correct..! However, the subject of whether an "individual", as opposed to a
"business".., has a "liability" to pay a tax on the smiple purchase and
operation of an aircraft is getting your balls in an uproar. True again,
the 16th amendment (as ratified.., another subject?) does give congress the
authority to levy and collect a tax on "incomes", but "income" in this case
is NOT derived from the purchase or ownership of an aircraft..., unless it
is used in a business..!! Oh, and by the way, I have a copy of the
incorporation papers for the IRS in the state of Delaware in front of me as
I write (smile) which gives it some authority to act as an "agency" with
limited powers to collect taxes with regards to alcohol, tobacco, and
firearms since it's realignment with the DEA, BATF some years ago. Please
keep searching the IRS code for the definition of "income"..!! Now.., back
to the subject 45 treads back..., and no name calling..!!

Selling something for more than you paid for it is called making a profit.

Profit is taxable as income for individuals as well as businesses.

What part of this are you struggling to understand?

In the real world very few items purchased by individuals are ever
sold for a profit and the big ticket items that are likely to are
generally registered in some manner making tax avoidance difficult.

If you buy an old chair at the Goodwill store for $25 and it turns out
to be a rare antique worth $25,000, you owe the IRS (and most likely
your state) taxes on $24,975 of income.

The fact that the odds of anyone ever knowing about it are just about
nil (unless you have a big mouth, **** someone off, and they turn
you in for the reward) does not mean that you are not legally liable
for the tax.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

It is time to plonk him as he is terminally stupid or just being ornery
to get our goats.

wrote in message
...
81mm wrote:

What part of this are you struggling to understand?

Tell'ya what guys.., keep paying taxes you don't owe.., but why misinform
others? As to any other aviation buffs who may be viewing this tread, looks
folks, just do the research and think a little about the answers these
"true" Americans who have nothing to offer but false information, bad
manners, and name calling..!!

Now, as to you two bad mannered assholes, as a retired Special Forces
type.., if you punks were to speak to me that way in public, I'd smiply tear
off your fu&%&'n head and **** in the hole. Now, as per your second hole..,
just report to your local IRS office.., bend over and spead your cheeks..!!!
My apologies if I offended any of the innocent by-standers..!!

81mm wrote:

Tell'ya what guys.., keep paying taxes you don't owe.., but why misinform
others? As to any other aviation buffs who may be viewing this tread, looks
folks, just do the research and think a little about the answers these
"true" Americans who have nothing to offer but false information, bad
manners, and name calling..!!

I'd love to not pay capital gains taxes, but you have yet to show a
legal way to avoid them.


Matt

Fight! Fight! Fight!

81mm wrote:
Looks guys.., why start calling names.., I mean, does it make your stance
any stronger..?? Frankly, this tread started out with the question of
buying an aircraft and paying a tax. Both of you (and the other bystander)
have moved the subject over to a discussion of an "income" tax, as apposed
to a simple fee, licensing, and/or a property tax issue.., and you are
correct..! However, the subject of whether an "individual", as opposed to a
"business".., has a "liability" to pay a tax on the smiple purchase and
operation of an aircraft is getting your balls in an uproar. True again,
the 16th amendment (as ratified.., another subject?) does give congress the
authority to levy and collect a tax on "incomes", but "income" in this case
is NOT derived from the purchase or ownership of an aircraft..., unless it
is used in a business..!! Oh, and by the way, I have a copy of the
incorporation papers for the IRS in the state of Delaware in front of me as
I write (smile) which gives it some authority to act as an "agency" with
limited powers to collect taxes with regards to alcohol, tobacco, and
firearms since it's realignment with the DEA, BATF some years ago. Please
keep searching the IRS code for the definition of "income"..!! Now.., back
to the subject 45 treads back..., and no name calling..!!

Yes, the income isn't derived from using the airplane, but when you sell
it, you may well generate income in the form of a capital gain.

Matt

Thanks Matt for a decent question. The best way to answer is to remind you
an aircraft, when bought, sold, or held by an individual "person" is NOT
deemed "real property" per se.., as others would have you believe, and
therefore is not automatically seen as a "gain", simply because at that
stage it is "personal property", not real property unless (and here we go
again), the aircraft is brought, held, or used in the course of a business,
or part of some inventory for sale. It is "business activities".., NOT
individual purchases that generate "income" (as defined) through their
business P/L statements, which make these businesses "libel" to pay a tax
(after assessment)..! So now, back to the "individual" as a "tax payer"..!!
The IRS code (surprisingly enough) nowhere "defines" income to the
individual as having an "income." Then here is the sticky point with the
tax guys, as everybody has bought into the "idea" (not in the code) that an
individual is a "person" with a liability or duty to pay a tax on income
"before" having been properly accessed!! This one question is the very one
the IRS has yet to ever supply me with an answer for. Every time they have
mailed me a "Notice of Deficiency" I have simply asked them for the date,
and by whom I was accessed the amount of deficiency..!! It has never gone
beyond this stage for lo these past 22 years..!! Now, call me an idiot, a
liar, or whatever.., but do the research..!! We should all just go about
our "business", and if the IRS comes to you.., then just ask as by "law"
they must answer you..!! Worst case matter is.., if you think you might owe
some money.., then hold it aside in a saving account drawing interest and
pay them later.., AFTER they have proved that you are the "person" that owes
the tax to begin with. They can't fine you, or add penalties and interest
as long as you respond to their notice in a "timely manner", and they know
it..!!

81mm wrote:
Thanks Matt for a decent question. The best way to answer is to remind you
an aircraft, when bought, sold, or held by an individual "person" is NOT
deemed "real property" per se.., as others would have you believe, and
therefore is not automatically seen as a "gain", simply because at that
stage it is "personal property", not real property unless (and here we go
again), the aircraft is brought, held, or used in the course of a business,
or part of some inventory for sale. It is "business activities".., NOT
individual purchases that generate "income" (as defined) through their
business P/L statements, which make these businesses "libel" to pay a tax
(after assessment)..! So now, back to the "individual" as a "tax payer"..!!
The IRS code (surprisingly enough) nowhere "defines" income to the
individual as having an "income." Then here is the sticky point with the
tax guys, as everybody has bought into the "idea" (not in the code) that an
individual is a "person" with a liability or duty to pay a tax on income
"before" having been properly accessed!! This one question is the very one
the IRS has yet to ever supply me with an answer for. Every time they have
mailed me a "Notice of Deficiency" I have simply asked them for the date,
and by whom I was accessed the amount of deficiency..!! It has never gone
beyond this stage for lo these past 22 years..!! Now, call me an idiot, a
liar, or whatever.., but do the research..!! We should all just go about
our "business", and if the IRS comes to you.., then just ask as by "law"
they must answer you..!! Worst case matter is.., if you think you might owe
some money.., then hold it aside in a saving account drawing interest and
pay them later.., AFTER they have proved that you are the "person" that owes
the tax to begin with. They can't fine you, or add penalties and interest
as long as you respond to their notice in a "timely manner", and they know
it..!!

Bunch of babbling nonsense.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On 11/25/05 09:30, "81mm" wrote:

Thanks Matt for a decent question. The best way to answer is to remind you
an aircraft, when bought, sold, or held by an individual "person" is NOT
deemed "real property" per se.., as others would have you believe, and
therefore is not automatically seen as a "gain", simply because at that
stage it is "personal property", not real property unless (and here we go
again), the aircraft is brought, held, or used in the course of a business,
or part of some inventory for sale. It is "business activities".., NOT
individual purchases that generate "income" (as defined) through their
business P/L statements, which make these businesses "libel" to pay a tax
(after assessment)..! So now, back to the "individual" as a "tax payer"..!!
The IRS code (surprisingly enough) nowhere "defines" income to the
individual as having an "income." Then here is the sticky point with the
tax guys, as everybody has bought into the "idea" (not in the code) that an
individual is a "person" with a liability or duty to pay a tax on income
"before" having been properly accessed!! This one question is the very one
the IRS has yet to ever supply me with an answer for. Every time they have
mailed me a "Notice of Deficiency" I have simply asked them for the date,
and by whom I was accessed the amount of deficiency..!! It has never gone
beyond this stage for lo these past 22 years..!! Now, call me an idiot, a
liar, or whatever.., but do the research..!! We should all just go about
our "business", and if the IRS comes to you.., then just ask as by "law"
they must answer you..!! Worst case matter is.., if you think you might owe
some money.., then hold it aside in a saving account drawing interest and
pay them later.., AFTER they have proved that you are the "person" that owes
the tax to begin with. They can't fine you, or add penalties and interest
as long as you respond to their notice in a "timely manner", and they know
it..!!



I don't know what you said here, probably because your return key is broken
on your keyboard.

In any case, from the instructions for Schedule D:

"Generally, gain from the sale or exchange of a capital asset held for
personal use is a capital gain."

"A capital asset is any property held by you except..." (What follows
doesn't include an airplane held by an individual for personal use.)

- Don
If you're faced with a forced landing,
fly the thing as far into the crash as possible.
- Bob Hoover