We're getting old, folks...

What *is* it with you guys, all hanging around with gals who don't like to
fly?

There are a variety of reasons - one of them is that the pool of gals
who =do= like to fly is very small. This reduces the chances of finding
one which whom a long term relationship will work for any given person.

There really =is= more to life than flying (although there may not be
more to life than getting high A rewarding, long term, loving
relationship consists of many many facets. When I was younger I had a
girlfriend who wasn't really interested in singing. I was (I was
singing in three choirs at the time). She happily came to my concerts
and enjoyed listening, but to have her come and sit in the alto section
while I was singing tenor just didn't do it for her. I talked to
another choir member (whose husband was actually tone-deaf - music to
him was like an intellectual puzzle of random notes) about this, and she
said that in the end it just didn't matter. Not that it mattered but
they got over it, but that it ultimately =didn't= =matter=. Marriage
and that kind of loving relationship is much bigger than music.

Well, I eventually got married, and you know what, she was right. It
just =doesn't= =matter=. There are many things much more important in
how one shares a life together.

My wife isn't too keen on flying either. When we were dating, she put
up with it. We had some good times, but it wasn't really her thing.
When we got married, she stopped flying. She didn't stop me from
flying, but she wasn't interested - she'd rather drive halfway across
the country or take a commercial jet. This plus the financial load of
starting a household pretty much meant that I also stopped flying.
What's the point of flying alone across the country, and then meeting
your wife on a commercial flight?

Well, that went on for ten years, while she went through whatever she
had to go through, and finally I just decided that I would fly again.
So I trained again at the local rent-a-wreck, got current and certified,
and found somebody with a nice plane to rent. On my first solo flight
in that plane, my wife wanted to see where the plane was. Then she
wanted to see the plane. Then she wanted to see the inside (it was
really nice - back in 01 or so it had the Garmin 430 and new leather
seats). So, she decided to come with me on that flight, and she enjoyed
playing with the passenger entertainment device (that's what I call the
moving map). She started flying again, but only on short trips, like to
Block Island, which we both enjoy and to which we can't reasonably get
to absent aviation. Little by little we got to longer trips, and in the
end she's going five hours over mountains with me. She's even taken the
pinch hitter course our club offers and landed the plane by herself
(that course has made her more involved in aviation, and therefore more
interested in the flights)

If I had to choose between her and the plane, I'd choose her in a
second. It was always that way.

Jay, you are lucky. You have a wife that likes to fly, while flying is
very important to you. But if something happened and she could no
longer fly, or was no longer willing to, how would that affect your
relationship with her, and with your Pathfinder?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay, you are lucky. You have a wife that likes to fly, while flying is
very important to you. But if something happened and she could no longer
fly, or was no longer willing to, how would that affect your relationship
with her, and with your Pathfinder?

One of the main advantages of us both being pilots is that it is extremely
unlikely that we will BOTH lose our medicals, and have to quit flying
altogether.

Is there anything that could make Mary unwilling to fly? I don't know, but
it would have to be either medical (inner ear trouble, for example) or
psychological (fear of flying after an incident, for example). Either way,
I would work very hard to help her through it.

Flying alone would take away at least 50% of the fun of flying. The main
advantage of owning and flying an airplane, to me anyway, is the ability to
transport my family to far-away places quickly and in great comfort. If all
I could was bore holes in the sky by myself, I would become quickly bored.

At that stage I would probably sell Atlas, buy a Decathlon, and get into
recreational aerobatic flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Is there anything that could make Mary unwilling to fly?

Of course there is. You named a few examples, but even if you couldn't
think of any, Nature would oblige.

Medical: besides inner ear, there are vascular conditions, tumors,
nerve issues, urinary conditions, disorienting eye conditions, a
plethora of things that could make it uncomfortable, inadvisable, or
even dangerous to fly, even as a passenger...

Psychological: the obvious fear after an incident, but also an old
association coming back, changed values in a risk-reward equation, a
newfound joy in driving in traffic (or an accompanying need for time for
solitary reflection), a new hobby (winemaking, for example), the stress
of taking care of other issues, for which flying does not provide an
outlet...

Legal (the following may seem silly until you've actually been faced
with other, equally silly things that have the force of law): A law or
insurance regulation prohibiting two or more corporate officers from
flying together, Mary getting on the terrorist no-fly list (if it can
happen to a United States Senator, it can happen to you)...

Social: taking care of an elderly parent who does not want her to fly
(and who becomes much harder to deal with if she does fly), a social (or
business) calendar that pretty much requires her to stay in her home
town, a new lack of allure for distant places...

Economic:... I could go on, but won't, because it doesn't matter.

Either way, I would work very hard to help her through it.

What does this mean? If she =wanted= to fly but was unable to because
of some conditons, this may help. But if the condition is such that she
no longer =wants= to fly, then "helping her through it" really means
"helping her see it my way" (the One True Way), and is likely to have
Unintended Consequences.

But it doesn't matter =why= she couldn't or wouldn't fly any more. Take
that as a given. She won't. How does this affect your relationship
with her? With flying?

Now suppose whatever it was that happened, happened while you were
dating. Would you dump her and go looking for another girl at some hangar?

The main
advantage of owning and flying an airplane, to me anyway, is the ability to
transport my family to far-away places quickly and in great comfort. If all
I could was bore holes in the sky by myself, I would become quickly bored.

This is interesting coming from somebody who, not too long ago, was
touting aviation as the be-all and the end-all of life. To many people,
flying in an airplane is just boring holes in the sky. Going places
quickly ends up being not so quick when you add in the time spent flight
planning, preflighting (and preheating), dealing with distant FBOs, and
then add in all the hidden time (keeping current, for example). You get
to rearrange when you spend time, but the time savings in a spam can is
somewhat illusory.

At that stage I would probably sell Atlas, buy a Decathlon, and get into
recreational aerobatic flying.

Recreational aerobatic flying is also just boring holes in the sky.
Twisty holes to be sure, but holes nonetheless. And it could be that
Mary (reasonably) would not want you to partake of this (more dangerous)
part of aviation. I suppose it's not likely coming from the motorcycle
crowd, but it's possible (just imagine a slightly different Mary for
purposes of argument).

Same question.

To answer your original question, there is much more to human
relationships than sharing a cockpit, and love, if it's worth anything,
trumps flying. It certainly trumps "the ability to transport my family
to far-away places quickly and in great comfort".

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Either way, I would work very hard to help her through it.

What does this mean? If she =wanted= to fly but was unable to because
of some conditons, this may help. But if the condition is such that she
no longer =wants= to fly, then "helping her through it" really means
"helping her see it my way" (the One True Way), and is likely to have
Unintended Consequences.

I think the basic flaw with your logic is that you're treating my wife
like a "normal" spouse. Mary isn't just another wife who might someday
decide that she doesn't want to fly with me anymore. She is a
certificated pilot, with over 500 hours as PIC, who is as skilled and
dedicated to piloting as anyone on this newsgroup.

In short, we're not talking about a woman who would suddenly decide
that wine-making was more interesting than flying, any more than you
would. It would take a very serious illness -- physical or mental --
for her to "not want to fly anymore."

But it doesn't matter =why= she couldn't or wouldn't fly any more. Take
that as a given. She won't. How does this affect your relationship
with her? With flying?

Now suppose whatever it was that happened, happened while you were
dating. Would you dump her and go looking for another girl at some hangar?

"Another girl at some hangar"? I'd like to see that hangar, someday!
:-)

In my experience, there just aren't very many chicks at the airport...

The main
advantage of owning and flying an airplane, to me anyway, is the ability to
transport my family to far-away places quickly and in great comfort. If all
I could was bore holes in the sky by myself, I would become quickly bored.

This is interesting coming from somebody who, not too long ago, was
touting aviation as the be-all and the end-all of life.

Which is why I then followed up with my statement that I would switch
to aerobatics -- the ULTIMATE "boring holes in the sky" flying!

To answer your original question, there is much more to human
relationships than sharing a cockpit, and love, if it's worth anything,
trumps flying. It certainly trumps "the ability to transport my family
to far-away places quickly and in great comfort".

Of course there is. But I believe it's safe to say that everyone on
this newsgroup is "into" aviation on a level that far surpasses the
"normal" pilot -- otherwise, why are we here? (I suppose it could be
to argue politics, but I doubt it...)

Given this level of dedication and enthusiasm to aviation, I'm still
surprised at the number of guys here who say that their spouses won't
fly with them. It's just sad.

(I've already warned my son about this phenomenon. And he's already
got it firmly in his head that if a girl doesn't like flying, that girl
doesn't warrant a second date. :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think the basic flaw with your logic is that you're treating my wife
like a "normal" spouse. [...] She is a certificated pilot,
with over 500 hours...

Certificated pilots hang it up too. There was a thread here about that
not too long ago.

Another girl at some hangar"? I'd like to see that hangar, someday!

Wouldn't we all!

But I believe it's safe to say that everyone on
this newsgroup is "into" aviation on a level that far surpasses the
"normal" pilot -- otherwise, why are we here?

Some like to fly, some like to talk?

Given this level of dedication and enthusiasm to aviation, I'm still
surprised at the number of guys here who say that their spouses won't
fly with them. It's just sad.

Yes, it is sad. But that wasn't your point. Your point was, and I quote:

What *is* it with you guys, all hanging around
with gals who don't like to fly? [...]
It's a damned serious question, really

We hang around with gals who don't like to fly because these gals have
so much other stuff going for them that it's worth flying less, or even
not at all, to be with them.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote

Mary getting on the terrorist no-fly list (if it can
happen to a United States Senator, it can happen to you)...

thanks for reminding me. I'm evidently on some type of list, and can not do
an
e-ticket; I have to check in at the counter. Last time it was no big deal,
but next time...?\

I'm going to Cancun in Feb. '06.

I have a place to check into (online I think) to get it straightened out.

I'll let you all know how it goes.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

I'm going to Cancun in Feb. '06.

Cozumel, 1st week of '06...

I'll let you all know how it goes.

The house we stay in didn't have any damage from Emily or Wilma, all the
trees and plants took it tough though. Was due to be there the day Emily
hit, postponed that trip till 9/11...

Continental is running cheaper rates for Tuesday and Wednesday flights,
($228) they've broken out the taxes/fees though, near $80 per ticket...

Only 30% of the hotels are open/available, saw photos of Cancun but
haven't looked into how well they've rebuilt/refurbished. Lots of
cheering of the workers to get them both open again. Tuff times on the
economy down there...

Last time I was there I wired the house for internet and installed a pbx
with extensions/network in every room. Was setting up a 5 mile wireless
link and didn't finish it. Some of it got destroyed in Wilma, will have
to see what I can salvage as cabletv/internet is still down on our end...

We eventually hope to have a C150 down there and start commuting with
the Lancair... (back on topic)

Jose wrote:

There are a variety of reasons - one of them is that the pool of gals
who =do= like to fly is very small.

I met and married my wife long before I took my first lesson. But she
encouraged me through mine, and now I get to encourage her through hers.
So I didn't find a "gal that likes to fly"; I made one.

[I hope I do as well with my sons. The eldest's birth was early, causing me
to postpone my IR checkride. The youngest's birth was early, causing me to
postpone my long commercial XC. But perhaps that's just kids being kids,
and not reflective of their opinions regarding aviation laugh.]

Similarly, I know someone that met and married his wife before he took his
first lesson. She encouraged him through his, and then hated to fly with
him. At first, I thought it her issue. But then I experienced something
that caused me to refuse to fly with him.

I'm not saying that every person with a spouse that won't fly does things as
dangerously as that someone I know. But how careful are we to let our
spouses in, at their own speed, to this enterprise of ours?

I was speaking to a wife of a lapsed pilot recently. We were discussing the
idea of his picking up flying again. She seemed - at best - disinterested.
But after I described some of the (short by the standards of this group
{8^) trips on which I've taken my family (ie. Nantucket for lunch, which is
my favorite example for this purpose {8^), she became suddenly
enthusiastic.

With a little care, I suspect that utility carries a lot of weight. I know
that I still point out ugly road traffic over which we're flying to my
wife: "See what we're not in?".

- Andrew

Jose wrote:

My wife isn't too keen on flying either. When we were dating, she put
up with it. We had some good times, but it wasn't really her thing.
When we got married, she stopped flying.

I hear it works the same with sex.

There must be a lesson there.


Jack