Go-around - my first sighting

("GS" wrote)
Speaking of which, just read on the NTSB website that there
was yet another Cirrus that burned up from the brakes during
an extended taxi. There have been many of these. One of
these was in my flying club. The plane was squawked for
a dragging brake apparently MANY times and was signed off
every time. And they supposedly rebuilt it "good as new."
Hmmmm.....


http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/540-full.html#191252
Cirrus To Issue SB On Brake Overheating, Fires
AvWeb 12-25-05

"The SB will call for the installation of color-changing temperature sensors
on the brake components so that pilots can tell -- during the preflight --
if the brakes have been previously overheated. Cirrus spokesman Ian Bentley
said overheating can cause failure of an O-ring. Failure of the O-ring
allows flammable brake fluid to leak onto potentially hot parts. If they're
hot enough, the brake fluid ignites and causes a stubborn fire that can
really make a mess of a low-wing plastic airplane."


Montblack

Go to Grant County Airport in Washington you will see 747's doing touch &
goes that'a a trip to watch.



"GS" wrote in message
et...
Jim Macklin wrote:
A lot of operators do not allow touch and goes, due the
perceived risks. But they could do a stop and go.

I can't imagine a jet doing this even at castle. I've
heard these were non-commercial 737's (private or other)

Gerald

Sometimes things are done in the aircraft, you can't check
the aircraft systems in a simulator. Sometimes they even
use the FDR data to get new parameters for the simulator
software.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Capt.Doug wrote:
|
| Go-arounds, otherwise called balked landings, are
standard training
| curriculum. Once or twice a year we may have to perform
one.
|
|
| but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The
twice-yearly routine
| is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators
are there for
| anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and
skills in upset
| and abnormal situations?
|
| Ramapriya
|

War stories after a lesson...if I remember the specs, the
Beechjet 400 brakes are rated for 7,000,000 foot pounds of
heat dissipation, which is more than one max weight landing
will generate. But [war story]; a number of years ago I was
flying a King Air 300 for a guy who just bought the airplane
and had hired a pilot who was not rated to fly the big King
Air. He was based out of Addison at Ft. Worth and I flew
down on the airlines to take them to Palm Springs to play
golf. While I was at Ft. Worth one of the mechanics, who
was doing a brake job on a Beechjet asked me if I was rated
in the Beechjet [he had heard so from somebody]. I said yes
and asked what he wanted to now.
He said he was doing the brake job and wanted to know about
breaking in the brakes. I told him that the procedure was
covered in the service manual and involved making several
medium speed runs on the runway and making firm brake
application. I said it was three runs at 30 kts to heat the
metallic linings and get them "cooked." I also said to be
sure and check the manual and be sure the pilot or mechanic
doing the runs be properly briefed, since the brake job [at
that time] was $16,000 in parts.
I got back two days later and taxied the King Air up to the
hanger and saw the Beechjet sitting on the ramp just back
from the break-in runs. But they had just winged it, 3 runs
at 80-90 knots. The right strut had already collapsed, the
tire blew out the fuse plugs and the brakes had caught on
fire. While I was just there, the left strut and fuse plug
blew and the left side caught fire. That brake job may have
cost a 1/4 million because they didn't bother to read the
manual RTFM.

Another time I was at OKC and taxied past an OK ANG C130
with a good size fire in the right mains. They had been
working in the pattern. I advised the tower and they told
the ANG crew which stopped and got out their fire equipment
while waiting for the airport fire dept. to arrive.

FAR 91 allows pilots do some brake work, be sure to do it by
the manual, a dragging brake can put you in the grass or
burn up the airplane.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P



"GS" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| A big issue is brake heat, you do need to give the
binders
| time to cool and the air flow while the gear is down and
| locked after take-off and on final helps a lot.
|
| you mean stopping a few hundred thousand pounds going 140
knots
| in 6000 feet generates heat???? ;-)
|
| Speaking of which, just read on the NTSB website that
there
| was yet another Cirrus that burned up from the brakes
during
| an extended taxi. There have been many of these. One of
| these was in my flying club. The plane was squawked for
| a dragging brake apparently MANY times and was signed off
| every time. And they supposedly rebuilt it "good as new."
| Hmmmm.....
|
| Gerald
|
|
|

Back in 1968 (about) there was an AD on the Beech Musketeer
because the parking brake would vibrate and engage during
flight, the system worked by locking the pressure from
applied normal brakes in the master cylinders. When you
landed, you could have one or both main wheels locked or
just dragging, depending on whether you had applied pressure
to the brakes in flight. This happened to me at SPI in the
winter, landing on Rwy 22 which was partially snow and ice
packed. I touched down on the ice and everything was fine
until I hit a dry area. The airplane yawed about 20 degrees
to the right in just a second or two. Full left rudder and
power straightened it out. When I got to the ramp and we
examined the airplane, 4 of the six plies in the new tire
had been cut through and flat spotted. This may have one of
the incidents that prompted the AD note.

Cirrus could have a similar problem.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
|
| "GS" wrote
|
| Speaking of which, just read on the NTSB website that
there
| was yet another Cirrus that burned up from the brakes
during
| an extended taxi. There have been many of these. One
of
| these was in my flying club.
|
| Nah, nothing wrong with the brakes! It is all pilot
error, according to
| Cirrus.
|
| It was interesting to note that they are offering a
retrofit of a larger
| brake package. They also said it will not even be an
option on new planes.
| With thinking like that, how long will it be until they
start to go the way
| of Cessna, and Piper?
|
| In most industries that are healthy, the customer is
always right. Give
| them what they want. My prediction is that before '06 is
out, it will be an
| option. Any takers?
| --
| Jim in NC
|

"GS" wrote in message
...
[...]
Speaking of which, just read on the NTSB website that there
was yet another Cirrus that burned up from the brakes during
an extended taxi.

By a pilot misusing the brakes.

The Cirrus isn't the only airplane out there with a free-castering
nosewheel. My airplane is one, and there are a number of other makes and
models with a similar design.

When I first learned to taxi without nosewheel steering, I did get the
brakes really hot. Smokin' hot. Literally. Obviously, not good for the
brakes. Thankfully, I learned the proper taxi technique without having to
go through that mistake twice.

But when I got the brakes that hot, it wasn't an issue of an "extended
taxi". It's that the brakes really don't need to be used that much, no
matter how far you're taxiing. Slight, infrequent adjustments are all that
are necessary. Someone using the brakes so much that they heat up enough to
cause damage to the airplane is taxiing VERY clumsily.

I suppose the issue might be of some interest to people who argue that the
Cirrus is being sold to lower-experience pilots, resulting in a
higher-than-normal rate of problems. The brakes would be just one more
example of that; same design in other airplanes doesn't cause nearly the
same number of issues (just because an airplane isn't make of fiberglass,
that doesn't mean it can handle having the brakes overheat regularly). It's
not clear why, otherwise, Cirrus would need this Service Bulletin that
Montblack mentioned, when none of the other types have needed one.

Pete

Sounds like fun. A number of years ago, several operators
were doing aircraft certification, crew training and such at
Salina, Kansas because it little traffic and runways
designed for the B36. You could see 747, DC10 and L-1011 in
the pattern, acting like C150 going around and around. The
girls at Flower were well tipped and gave out a lot of
chocolate chip cookies. [Really, free cookies]


"NW_PILOT" wrote in
message ...
| Go to Grant County Airport in Washington you will see
747's doing touch &
| goes that'a a trip to watch.
|
|
|
| "GS" wrote in message
| et...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| A lot of operators do not allow touch and goes, due
the
| perceived risks. But they could do a stop and go.
|
| I can't imagine a jet doing this even at castle. I've
| heard these were non-commercial 737's (private or other)
|
| Gerald
|
|

"GS" wrote

Speaking of which, just read on the NTSB website that there
was yet another Cirrus that burned up from the brakes during
an extended taxi. There have been many of these. One of
these was in my flying club.

Nah, nothing wrong with the brakes! It is all pilot error, according to
Cirrus.

It was interesting to note that they are offering a retrofit of a larger
brake package. They also said it will not even be an option on new planes.
With thinking like that, how long will it be until they start to go the way
of Cessna, and Piper?

In most industries that are healthy, the customer is always right. Give
them what they want. My prediction is that before '06 is out, it will be an
option. Any takers?
--
Jim in NC

"Ramapriya" wrote

but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure!

I *think* that what he was saying is that there are occasions, that come up
a time or two per year, that makes a go around necessary - in real life.
--
Jim in NC

"Ramapriya" wrote in
oups.com:

Capt.Doug wrote:

Go-arounds, otherwise called balked landings, are standard training
curriculum. Once or twice a year we may have to perform one.


but surely not real-time in an aircraft, Doug? The twice-yearly routine
is in a simulator, I'm sure! And that's what simulators are there for
anyway, isn't it - to hone your aviation knowledge and skills in upset
and abnormal situations?

Ramapriya


About 5 1/2 years ago I was in Las Vegas with some visiting friends. While
my friends kids went on the rides on top of the Stratosphere Tower, I was
watching the airlines land on 19 L&R at McCarran. It was a brilliantly
clear hot August day. Way in the distance what looked like a black screen
could be seen. One could see blue sky both in front of and behind this
black screen. It was moving towards us. As it reached the far end of RWY
19, one could see that is was a rain shower maybe 1/3 of a mile deep. We
could see the water spattering off the runway surface. We observed an
American MD80, Air West 737, and Delta MD80 execute go rounds and could see
them bounce around as they penetrated the shower. Then, with the storm
about in the middle of the runway, a Soutwest 737 decided to land and
almost fishtailed off when it hit the storm. At least two more flights
follwing the Southwest flight went around. That was all we could observe
as the outside observation deck was evacuated when the storm reached the
numbers on the runway (about 7 miles from the Stratosphere Tower).

At FAA safety seminars, they have shown a video called "The Day All Hell
Broke Loose" showing what happened at the old Stapleton Airport in Denver
one day when the wind shear topped 100 knots! Many airliners (I seem to
remember the video showing 8) went around rather than try to handle this
severe wind shear. I don't know if this video is available on the web, but
if you get a chance to see it, it is an eye opener.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

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