Report Leaving Assigned Altitude?

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...


"Stan Gosnell" me@work wrote in message
...

You can descend from 7000' to 3000' whenever you're ready, but
you need to report when you do. You would report leaving 7000'

Where is it written that any report is needed other than the initial
acknowledgment of the pilot discretion clearance? I would maintain that
acknowledging the pilot discretion clearance satisfies the requirement to
report leaving the altitude. In fact, I have on a number of occasions
done
just that and not reported to ATC when I began a pilot-discretion descent,
with no complaint from anyone.

Has anyone here ever acknowledged a pilot discretion clearance and then
started a descent at some later point and received a complaint from ATC
that
a second report was needed prior to beginning a descent?


--
--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

No. That is what the black letters all in a row that translate to "pilot
discretion" mean. I've done hundreds of them in small aircraft and heavy
(450,000+ lbs).

No. That is what the black letters all in a row that translate to "pilot
discretion" mean. I've done hundreds of them in small aircraft and heavy
(450,000+ lbs).

I have a similar background. When I was flying the air carrier aircraft, the
company I worked for had as policy that its crews would report leaving a
previously assigned altitude, whether PD or not.

There reasoning was it removed any possibility of ambiguity.

When there are two options, and there is any doubt as to which is right (or
wrong) exercise the option that has the least cost if wrong.

wrote in message ...

I have a similar background. When I was flying the air carrier aircraft,
the company I worked for had as policy that its crews would report
leaving a previously assigned altitude, whether PD or not.

There reasoning was it removed any possibility of ambiguity.


Where was ambiguity possible?



When there are two options, and there is any doubt as to which is
right (or wrong) exercise the option that has the least cost if wrong.


What is the cost?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message ...

I have a similar background. When I was flying the air carrier
aircraft,
the company I worked for had as policy that its crews would report
leaving a previously assigned altitude, whether PD or not.

There reasoning was it removed any possibility of ambiguity.


Where was ambiguity possible?

In the real world to which most of us belong, ambiguity is not just
possible, it is likely. Busy people doing somewhat stressful work forget
things all the time.


When there are two options, and there is any doubt as to which is
right (or wrong) exercise the option that has the least cost if wrong.


What is the cost?

What is the cost to you as a controller in responding "copy" or whatever
(whatever can = no response at all) to a call of "XYZ departing FLABC",
especially if the radio is not busy? I know the cost to me as the pilot is
a nagging uncertainty that the controller isn't paying full attention,
doesn't know I've started, and will run someone into me. Silly? Unlikely?
Very probably so. But what is the cost for the above radio exchange and my
peace of mind? You (generic) being ****y because I gave you some info on an
otherwise clear radio freq? I can live with that.

JB

"Jim Baker" wrote in message
...

In the real world to which most of us belong, ambiguity is not just
possible, it is likely. Busy people doing somewhat stressful work forget
things all the time.


Swell, but where is ambiguity possible?



What is the cost to you as a controller in responding "copy" or whatever
(whatever can = no response at all) to a call of "XYZ departing
FLABC", especially if the radio is not busy?


None. So what is the cost of not reporting?



I know the cost to me as the pilot is
a nagging uncertainty that the controller isn't paying full attention,
doesn't know I've started, and will run someone into me. Silly?
Unlikely? Very probably so. But what is the cost for the above radio
exchange and my peace of mind?


How does that give you peace of mind?



You (generic) being ****y because I gave you some info on an
otherwise clear radio freq? I can live with that.


Me be ****y?

Jim Baker wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

wrote in message ...

I have a similar background. When I was flying the air carrier

aircraft,

the company I worked for had as policy that its crews would report
leaving a previously assigned altitude, whether PD or not.

There reasoning was it removed any possibility of ambiguity.


Where was ambiguity possible?


In the real world to which most of us belong, ambiguity is not just
possible, it is likely. Busy people doing somewhat stressful work forget
things all the time.

I think his point is that a cruise clearance is simply not ambiguous.
It is spelled out very clearly and the rules are clear, not ambiguous.
What do you think is ambiguous about it?

Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

I think his point is that a cruise clearance is simply not ambiguous.
It is spelled out very clearly and the rules are clear, not ambiguous.
What do you think is ambiguous about it?

Matt

The thread is getting mature, but I believe "ambiguous" was in the context of a
PD clearance, not a cruise clearance.

wrote in message ...


"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

I think his point is that a cruise clearance is simply not ambiguous.
It is spelled out very clearly and the rules are clear, not ambiguous.
What do you think is ambiguous about it?

Matt

The thread is getting mature, but I believe "ambiguous" was in the context
of a
PD clearance, not a cruise clearance.

Correct. That is what I was referring to.

wrote:

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


I think his point is that a cruise clearance is simply not ambiguous.
It is spelled out very clearly and the rules are clear, not ambiguous.
What do you think is ambiguous about it?

Matt


The thread is getting mature, but I believe "ambiguous" was in the context of a
PD clearance, not a cruise clearance.


Yes, it did seem to switch gears. However, neither is ambiguous, so I'm
still curious to see an example of ambiguity.


Matt

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


Where was ambiguity possible?

More than once at my airline a PD descent clearance was issued, then a handoff
subsequently made to another sector. The receiving controller did not know
about the PD clearance.




When there are two options, and there is any doubt as to which is
right (or wrong) exercise the option that has the least cost if wrong.


What is the cost?

See first answer above.