Some bad controllers

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

I imagine a scenario where a human error (forgetfulness, which we all
experience) could allow a delayed SAR initiation, whereas a reminder
from the computer could prevent that. However, now that Steven
mentioned the flight strip still being there, I want to hear more about
how that works.


There's not much more to tell. The strip is the controller's source of
information on any particular flight. The actions he takes with that flight
will be hand written on the strip. As long as the controller has
responsibility for a flight he will have a strip on it, he discards it when
the aircraft leaves his airspace or cancels. If an aircraft is cleared for
an approach to an untowered field but fails to cancel, the strip will remain
there.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

I imagine a scenario where a human error (forgetfulness, which we all
experience) could allow a delayed SAR initiation, whereas a reminder
from the computer could prevent that. However, now that Steven
mentioned the flight strip still being there, I want to hear more about
how that works.



There's not much more to tell. The strip is the controller's source of
information on any particular flight. The actions he takes with that flight
will be hand written on the strip. As long as the controller has
responsibility for a flight he will have a strip on it, he discards it when
the aircraft leaves his airspace or cancels. If an aircraft is cleared for
an approach to an untowered field but fails to cancel, the strip will remain
there.



What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport? If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action. It isn't an action to close the flight plan,
but nonetheless, it is an action taken upon completion of the flight.
It wasn't clear earlier in the thread that ANYTHING was done upon
completion of an IFR flight into a tower equipped airport or a non-tower
airport for that matter.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport?


If it's a satellite facility, he'll drop the strip in the discard pile. If
it's a tower with a colocated radar approach the tower probably won't have a
strip at all. The last strip is printed in the TRACON and the tower gets
it's information from the BRITE.



If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action. It isn't an action to close the flight plan,
but nonetheless, it is an action taken upon completion of the flight.


So what action does close the flight plan at a towered field then?



It wasn't clear earlier in the thread that ANYTHING was done upon
completion of an IFR flight into a tower equipped airport or a non-tower
airport for that matter.


Well, I explained what was done, you apparently don't buy it. That's okay
with me.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport?



If it's a satellite facility, he'll drop the strip in the discard pile. If
it's a tower with a colocated radar approach the tower probably won't have a
strip at all. The last strip is printed in the TRACON and the tower gets
it's information from the BRITE.



If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action. It isn't an action to close the flight plan,
but nonetheless, it is an action taken upon completion of the flight.



So what action does close the flight plan at a towered field then?

Beats me, I'm not a controller. From what you've said, doesn't sound
like anything does. Nothing needs to though when you can see the
airplane land or crash as the case may be.


It wasn't clear earlier in the thread that ANYTHING was done upon
completion of an IFR flight into a tower equipped airport or a non-tower
airport for that matter.



Well, I explained what was done, you apparently don't buy it. That's okay
with me.

I never saw any comment about having a strip that is thrown away until
I'd commented several times about needing something as a reminder to
ensure the airplane had closed the flight plan.

I saw comments about nothing happening and nothing needing to happen,
but no explanation as to what actually was happening. I never said I
didn't buy having a strip that stays in front of the controller until
the controller manually disposes of it.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Beats me, I'm not a controller.


Well, I am, and you apparently felt you were in a position to tell me I was
wrong.



From what you've said, doesn't sound
like anything does. Nothing needs to though when you can see the
airplane land or crash as the case may be.


Yeah, I think I said something like that several messages ago.



I never saw any comment about having a strip that is thrown away until
I'd commented several times about needing something as a reminder to
ensure the airplane had closed the flight plan.


Why did you assume there wasn't something as a reminder?



I saw comments about nothing happening and nothing needing to happen,
but no explanation as to what actually was happening. I never said I
didn't buy having a strip that stays in front of the controller until
the controller manually disposes of it.


Okay, so do you now understand that nothing happens and nothing needs to
happen?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Beats me, I'm not a controller.



Well, I am, and you apparently felt you were in a position to tell me I was
wrong.

Go back and read it again. I never said you were wrong. I said the
system had a flaw if it didn't have a means, beyond the memory of a
controller, to ensure that a pilot landing at a non-tower field on an
IFR flight plan closed his flight plan. Once I knew that flight strips
were still in use and in front of the controller until they removed them
(which provides the memory jogger I was after), I agreed that no further
automation was needed. This is an archaic system, but certainly one
that should work.


From what you've said, doesn't sound
like anything does. Nothing needs to though when you can see the
airplane land or crash as the case may be.



Yeah, I think I said something like that several messages ago.

But you didn't say why. Sorry, but I seldom accept "it is right because
I say so" as a viable answer without knowing the why.


I never saw any comment about having a strip that is thrown away until
I'd commented several times about needing something as a reminder to
ensure the airplane had closed the flight plan.



Why did you assume there wasn't something as a reminder?

Because there were replies that suggested that there was nothing.


I saw comments about nothing happening and nothing needing to happen,

but no explanation as to what actually was happening. I never said I

didn't buy having a strip that stays in front of the controller until
the controller manually disposes of it.



Okay, so do you now understand that nothing happens and nothing needs to
happen?

No, I understand that something happens (a flight strip must me manually
removed from in front of the controller), and this something is
sufficient to ensure that an overdue IFR flight is detected in a
reasonable time frame. It was the insistence on your part that nothing
happened and nothing needed to happen that kept this thread going. This
is pretty disengenuous when you knew that something does happen. Then
again, I know from past experience that you love to argue over trivia...
:-)


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...

Go back and read it again. I never said you were wrong.


Okay. I went back and read it again. I said no action is taken by the
controller to close a flight plan. You said if the controller discards the
strip manually, then that is taking an action.



But you didn't say why. Sorry, but I seldom accept "it is right because
I say so" as a viable answer without knowing the why.


But I did say why. Go back and read it again.



Because there were replies that suggested that there was nothing.


Odd that I didn't see them.



No, I understand that something happens (a flight strip must me manually
removed from in front of the controller), and this something is
sufficient to ensure that an overdue IFR flight is detected in a
reasonable time frame.


That happens with departure and overflight strips as well.



It was the insistence on your part that nothing
happened and nothing needed to happen that kept this thread going.


Well, that's the way it is, but you're free to believe whatever you choose.



This is pretty disengenuous when you knew that something does
happen. Then again, I know from past experience that you love to
argue over trivia...
:-)


So how are IFR arrivals differentiated from IFR departures and overflights
if the strips are treated the same?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
I saw comments about nothing happening and nothing needing to happen,
but no explanation as to what actually was happening. I never said I
didn't buy having a strip that stays in front of the controller until
the controller manually disposes of it.


Okay, so do you now understand that nothing happens and nothing needs to
happen?

In addition, I thought we understood that at some time (presumably after an
appropriate timeout), some FAA computer decides to delete the flight without
human intervention. I just wanted to be reassured that is an exception to
the the "nothing happens". Otherwise I suppose you'd quickly run out of
available squawk codes and eventually memory space.

-- David Brooks

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...

In addition, I thought we understood that at some time (presumably
after an appropriate timeout), some FAA computer decides to delete
the flight without human intervention. I just wanted to be reassured
that is an exception to the the "nothing happens". Otherwise I
suppose you'd quickly run out of available squawk codes and
eventually memory space.


Yes, the flight plan is deleted from the computer without any human action.
Understand that this happens at the end of the line for any particular
flight, there's just no reason to retain the information.

Matthew S. Whiting wrote:

What does the controller do with the strip when an airplane lands at a
tower equipped airport?

Files it.


If he/she discards the strip manually, then
that is taking an action.

It's manually filed into the little slot which is cleaned out each hour
so the traffic count can be recorded.