ADIZ Violation Explained in AOPA Magazine

"Morgans" wrote:


"Gary Drescher" wrote

The passenger was manipulating the controls, yes. But that in no way
places any navigational responsibility on him--especially since his
cross-country training hadn't even begun yet.

I thought I remembered that the 70 yr old was flying, until
intercepted; the student took over at that point. No?

The article says the student did all the flying, from the left seat, and the licensed pilot (PIC) was in the
right seat and handled the nav and comm.

Mike

Morgans wrote:

I thought I remembered that the 70 yr old was flying, until intercepted; the
student took over at that point. No?

I also remember reading that, but, according to this article, the student was
flying all the time.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Ron Lee"
(Roy Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Stubby wrote:
Roy Smith wrote:
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

A simple "Follow me" sign would have solved the problem almost
instantly -- but the crew in the Blackhawk had no such sign.


They should have flown a code flag Lima.
OK. I'll bite. Please explain.

It means "Follow me"

You may be right but you would have to educate many people on the
meaning. A sign in a helicopter makes more sense.

A frigging *radio* would have made sense.

At least I have
seen intercept procedures and protocol but could not explain all of
them without me cheat sheet.

But you probably would have remembered to try 121.5.

Homeland insecurity at its best. Imagine if they'd killed these guys. Nah.
They're not *that* stupid...

moo

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
I have 0 sympathy for either of these guys. Since when is a GPS required
for VFR navigation? What happened to learning how to read a map and
looking out the window? Makes you really question a system where you get
your pilots license and you are good to go for life. Maybe there should be
some periodic retest to make sure people still have the skills they need or
have learned about new stuff that didn't exist when they first got their
license.

Yessssss.... More regulations. More draconian enforcement. Listen bub,
weekly testing and the death penalty wouldn't prevent this **** from ever
happening. The root cause rests in stupidity; which is incurable. Assuming
the AOPA account is mostly accurate, everybody ****ed up. A student pilot
could have done a better job of intercepting these guys.

moo

"Jay Honeck"
The current issue of AOPA Pilot has a fascinating article about the two
pilots (one certificated, one student) who penetrated the Washington ADIZ
last spring, and brought the wrath of the government down upon us all.

What struck me was the entirely casual way in which it all happened.

That and the inability, after millions of dollars spent, to be able to
contact the most likely offenders. That's on a par with the worst cockups
we've seen at airport security carried out by people with a fraction of the
training. These offenders were ****ups, for sure, but are there any pilots
here who think they couldn't have done a better job of intercepting these
guys?

moo

Gary Drescher wrote:

The passenger was manipulating the controls, yes. But that in no way places
any navigational responsibility on him--especially since his cross-country
training hadn't even begun yet.

Thirty hours and no x-c training? Will this guy live long enough to get
his ticket at this rate?


Jack

"Happy Dog" wrote

These offenders were ****ups, for sure, but are there any pilots here who
think they couldn't have done a better job of intercepting these guys?

Ahhhhhhh, yep? How about just about anyone here?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Happy Dog" wrote

These offenders were ****ups, for sure, but are there any pilots here who
think they couldn't have done a better job of intercepting these guys?

Ahhhhhhh, yep? How about just about anyone here?

To be fair, we didn't get the intercepting pilots' stories. They were
undoubtedly being directed by senior officers and that, or some problem with
their ship (the radio problem mentioned seems odd) may have played a
significant role. But, whatever happened, it's an equally black mark for
Homeland Insecurity. Most pilots have heard stories about troubled planes
being guided to safety by pilots in other planes who weren't out flying
looking for anyone to intercept or rescue.

moo

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 01:37:29 GMT, Jose
wrote in : :


Actually, I would place some culpability on the FBO (presumably) that
rented the PIC the aircraft.

Why?

Because in my experience the FBO's insurance requires a current
medical certificate and BFR for coverage.

Because in my experience the FBO's insurance requires a current
medical certificate and BFR for coverage.

That may let the insurance company off the hook (though maybe not).
However, how does that place -blame- on the FBO?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
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