New Year weight loss plans ???

You guys are thinking way too high tech. My son recommends a skateboard.

Those things are dangerous, and lots of work. Those little
skateboard/scooters (with handle bars) are better -- and better than
walking -- but they're still too much like work, too.

We always see the annoying gas-powered versions of those things at OSH.
I've never yet seen anyone kill themselves on them, yet, but I always watch
anyway...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

We always see the annoying gas-powered versions of those things at OSH.
I've never yet seen anyone kill themselves on them, yet, but I always watch
anyway...

I regularly do some pretty stupid things on mountain bikes (scars to
show for it) but wouldn't be tempted to actually use one of the
motorized scooters (aka "gopeds") for transportation.

The front wheel is small enough that even a small obstacle can cause
an endo, and the geometry is usually such that there's little or no
trail in the front end geometry (trail is what makes the rear wheels
in a shopping cart and the front wheel on a bike tend toward inherent
stability). Without that, the front wheel will want to take off one
direction or the other at the slightest input.

There's no reason there couldn't be a "safer goped" design, with a
front wheel in the 12-14" range, and inherently stable geometry (draw
a line through the steering axis, and if the wheel's contact point
with the ground is behind the axis, it's stable).

Mark "brave but not stupid" Hickey
Former wife would disagree

"Mark Hickey" wrote

(draw
a line through the steering axis, and if the wheel's contact point
with the ground is behind the axis, it's stable).

A bike is not in agreement with your statement. Yet it is stable. Any idea
as to why?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote:

"Mark Hickey" wrote

(draw
a line through the steering axis, and if the wheel's contact point
with the ground is behind the axis, it's stable).

A bike is not in agreement with your statement. Yet it is stable. Any idea
as to why?

Actually, it is... the steering axis is canted (usually by 16-18
degrees). Remember what matters is the relationship between the
steering axis (a line drawn through the center of the head tube, or
fork's "steer tube"), and the point the front wheel touches the ground
(not where the steering axis crosses the wheel, which is ahead of the
steering axis line). Don't get misled by the centerline of the fork's
blades, which can be canted to the front, putting the axle ahead of
the steering axis - it's the contact patch that counts.

It's a lot easier to visualize if you're looking at a bike - the
steering axis line passes clearly ahead of the front tire's contact
patch (by 2.5 - 3" on most bikes). In effect, this produces the same
kind of results that a shopping cart's rear wheels does - the front
wheel wants to "trail" behind the steering axis. It can also get you
in trouble when you hit a very steep bump or get the rear wheel up in
the air a bit (since the contact patch can end up ahead of the
steering axis, and can take the bars out of the rider's hands if
he/she isn't paying attention).

Mark "and I always hate it when that happens" Hickey

"Mark Hickey" wrote

Don't get misled by the centerline of the fork's
blades, which can be canted to the front, putting the axle ahead of
the steering axis - it's the contact patch that counts.

Got it.
--
Jim in NC

I regularly do some pretty stupid things on mountain bikes (scars to
show for it) but wouldn't be tempted to actually use one of the
motorized scooters (aka "gopeds") for transportation.

Maybe you should try one. I probably have several thousand miles on mine,
and it is by far the most convenient thing to carry as simple ground
transportation in a small plane. I've used it on all kinds of terrain and
it's no more prone to "endoing" than any bike I've ridden; the CG is way too
low to do that - you'd get thrown off the front if anything (which hasn't
happened to me).

Then again, "I ain't skerd" to ride anything. My favorite bike is the penny
farthing with a 4' front wheel. Now THAT thing will endo!

"JohnH" wrote:


I regularly do some pretty stupid things on mountain bikes (scars to
show for it) but wouldn't be tempted to actually use one of the
motorized scooters (aka "gopeds") for transportation.

Maybe you should try one. I probably have several thousand miles on mine,
and it is by far the most convenient thing to carry as simple ground
transportation in a small plane. I've used it on all kinds of terrain and
it's no more prone to "endoing" than any bike I've ridden; the CG is way too
low to do that - you'd get thrown off the front if anything (which hasn't
happened to me).

The COG of the scooter is really low - it's the fact that the COG of
the rider is about belt-height that bothers me - that and Newton's
insistence that an object in motion... ;-) Any obstacle that the
front wheel hits taller than halfway up or more to the axle is likely
to cause "bad things to happen". If there was some suspension it
would be a bit less likely to spontaneously separate the rider from
the vehicle.

Then again, "I ain't skerd" to ride anything. My favorite bike is the penny
farthing with a 4' front wheel. Now THAT thing will endo!

And those things produce the mother of all endos (starting with your
head about 10 feet above mother earth). Never rode one, but would
love to some day.

Mark Hickey

insistence that an object in motion... ;-) Any obstacle that the
front wheel hits taller than halfway up or more to the axle is likely
to cause "bad things to happen"

Which could really only happen if you weren't paying attention. Fortunately
they're somewhat self limiting on speed on rough surfaces - as in grinding
to a halt.

Then again, "I ain't skerd" to ride anything. My favorite bike is
the penny farthing with a 4' front wheel. Now THAT thing will endo!


And those things produce the mother of all endos (starting with your
head about 10 feet above mother earth). Never rode one, but would
love to some day.

One has to be especially careful descending hills; sufficient grade will
quickly put you ahead of CG and over you go - and as you say, it's a long
fall. It's no wonder the newer bicycle designs are called "safety bikes"!
But it's the most fun inanimate thing I ride.

http://www.johnnyhouse.com/images/sayhi.jpg

"Mark Hickey" wrote in message
...
Any obstacle that the front wheel hits taller than halfway
up or more to the axle is likely to cause "bad things to
happen".

When I was first starting out letting my dog run beside me on a leash while
riding my trail bike, I kept the leash in my right hand, wanting him to be
on that side of the bike... A couple of times, he would see something and
try to cross in front of me and I would slam on the brakes with my left
hand... Well, that was the front brake and as such, I quickly did an end
over, followed quickly by a near face plant, followed soon thereafter with
choice cuss words directed towards the stupid ass dog... Eventually, I
figured that the dog wasn't going to get any smarter, so I reversed the
brakes so that the left brake lever controls the rear brake... Kind of
difficult to do an end over when you are only putting on the rear brake...

"Grumman-581" wrote:

When I was first starting out letting my dog run beside me on a leash while
riding my trail bike, I kept the leash in my right hand, wanting him to be
on that side of the bike... A couple of times, he would see something and
try to cross in front of me and I would slam on the brakes with my left
hand... Well, that was the front brake and as such, I quickly did an end
over, followed quickly by a near face plant, followed soon thereafter with
choice cuss words directed towards the stupid ass dog... Eventually, I
figured that the dog wasn't going to get any smarter, so I reversed the
brakes so that the left brake lever controls the rear brake... Kind of
difficult to do an end over when you are only putting on the rear brake...

Some of us are doomed to repeat the same mistakes... ;-)

I remember running my girlfriend's Irish setter (like a lot of women -
beautiful, but not too bright) (the dog, not the girlfriend), using a
longish leash. I got a couple miles in before wearing the dog out,
and headed back to her house. There was a fairly big hill on the way,
and I decided to see what the terminal velocity of an Irish setter is.

This experiment was going well until my speed exceeded that of the dog
slightly. I let out a little more leash as I reached for the brakes.

Unfortunately, that's the moment the dog decided running on the RIGHT
side of the speed limit sign would be a great idea.

Imagine coasting down a hill at ~20mph on an old road bike with drop
bars, wearing gym shorts and a muscle shirt (no helmet - I was young
AND dumb), and then turning the bars hard to the right.

I went over the bars and managed to tuck and roll, and actually did a
handspring out, landing on my feet (and not a soul around to see it).
Fortunately my guardian angle was apparently on duty that day and I
only got a little biffed up. Slightly scraped, but wiser.

Mark Hickey