![]() |
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Jim Macklin wrote:
All missed approach gradients are based on engine out climb, which is very weak because jets climb at high speed and thus have a lower gradient. Nothing in TERPs, including missed approach procedures, consider engine out climb. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Standard climb gradients are based on 150'/ NM (if I
remember correctly) and if a departure is greater than that, it will be noted on the chart. FAR 135 and 121 require that the most adverse performance be considered when operating, gross weight must be reduced to meet the performance requirement. Often you will see airliners with half the seats empty because the airplane can't meet the take-off requirements. I did not say it very well the first time. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. wrote in message news:3NWuf.6579$V.94@fed1read04... | Jim Macklin wrote: | All missed approach gradients are based on engine out climb, | which is very weak because jets climb at high speed and thus | have a lower gradient. | | Nothing in TERPs, including missed approach procedures, consider engine | out climb. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Jim Macklin wrote:
Standard climb gradients are based on 150'/ NM (if I remember correctly) and if a departure is greater than that, it will be noted on the chart. FAR 135 and 121 require that the most adverse performance be considered when operating, gross weight must be reduced to meet the performance requirement. Often you will see airliners with half the seats empty because the airplane can't meet the take-off requirements. I did not say it very well the first time. Departures are standard if they do not exceed 200 feet per mile. Missed approach surfaces are 40:1, which is 152 feet per mile. That is probably the 150 per mile you're thinking of. The current FAA thinking is that a missed approach requires 200 feet per mile, and the AIM so states. (AIM 5-4-20 b) One-engine climb gradient requirements apply on the commercial operators. (121.189 for air carriers). But, the air carrier, under 121.189, is not required to look at the missed approach procedure's entire area of protected airspace. If the carrier finds that will not penalize them they are free to simply accept the missed approach as a missed-approach OEI flight path. As you know, the 121.189 issues are far more pronounced on departure than they are on the typical missed approach. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
KISS WAG SWAG PDC
150/152 even 200 ft/nm is shallow, but most light aircraft and many jets with an engine out can't do it at altitudes above 5,000 feet. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P wrote in message news:AJYuf.6585$V.412@fed1read04... | Jim Macklin wrote: | Standard climb gradients are based on 150'/ NM (if I | remember correctly) and if a departure is greater than that, | it will be noted on the chart. FAR 135 and 121 require that | the most adverse performance be considered when operating, | gross weight must be reduced to meet the performance | requirement. Often you will see airliners with half the | seats empty because the airplane can't meet the take-off | requirements. | | I did not say it very well the first time. | | | | Departures are standard if they do not exceed 200 feet per mile. | | Missed approach surfaces are 40:1, which is 152 feet per mile. That is | probably the 150 per mile you're thinking of. The current FAA thinking | is that a missed approach requires 200 feet per mile, and the AIM so | states. (AIM 5-4-20 b) | | One-engine climb gradient requirements apply on the commercial | operators. (121.189 for air carriers). But, the air carrier, under | 121.189, is not required to look at the missed approach procedure's | entire area of protected airspace. If the carrier finds that will not | penalize them they are free to simply accept the missed approach as a | missed-approach OEI flight path. | | As you know, the 121.189 issues are far more pronounced on departure | than they are on the typical missed approach. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Jim Macklin wrote:
KISS WAG SWAG PDC 150/152 even 200 ft/nm is shallow, but most light aircraft and many jets with an engine out can't do it at altitudes above 5,000 feet. Then, there are the high-end biz jets that can do 700 feet per mile (SL, standard day) with OEI. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
![]()
Yes, the modern biz jet is very over-powered and they can
climb at moderate speed. But with an engine out, even the hot-rod Lear jet climbs out flat. Just as a point, I once had the opportunity to depart Wichita (1332 feet MSL) single pilot in a King Air 300, no passengers or baggage and only 1/2 fuel. I was taking the plane to Oklahoma City for a salesman to show. Departed runway 1R and did a 130 kt. IAS chandelle to the right from rotation, circling around the airport radar antenna. Rolled out southbound at 5,000 over the Cessna plant. Approach asked where I was, apparently I stayed in their dead zone from just after lift-off until I rolled out of my turn, about 45 seconds after take-off. I could have been higher but 5,000 was my take-off limit, approach cleared my to 15,000 and I was there before I was 10 miles south. Love that big King Air, only problem was my chart bag ended up in the baggage area, lucky for me, it was a route I flew weekly and the necessary charts were on my knee. I use a cheap steno pad holder with a "third-hand" from Sporty's, cost very little, has a clear window on the flap and a 5x8 yellow pad. -- James H. Macklin ATP,CFI,A&P -- The people think the Constitution protects their rights; But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome. some support http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties. wrote in message news:26_uf.6816$V.287@fed1read04... | Jim Macklin wrote: | KISS WAG SWAG PDC | | 150/152 even 200 ft/nm is shallow, but most light aircraft | and many jets with an engine out can't do it at altitudes | above 5,000 feet. | | | Then, there are the high-end biz jets that can do 700 feet per mile (SL, | standard day) with OEI. | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
FAA PPL night flight requirement - does it have to be DUAL? | Peter Clark | Piloting | 21 | January 6th 05 12:38 AM |
Night solo XC? | G. Burkhart | Piloting | 51 | October 14th 04 03:11 PM |
Night of the bombers - the most daring special mission of Finnishbombers in WW2 | Jukka O. Kauppinen | Military Aviation | 4 | March 22nd 04 11:19 PM |
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons | Curtl33 | General Aviation | 7 | January 9th 04 11:35 PM |