Can I fly it at night?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

How long is a "short" flight? Have you determined what the power
requirements are for the anticollision, position, and instrument lights for
a flight of that length? Have you done any calculations on the weight?

My original post was intended to start the process of
looking at the problems I would encounter, so I had not done
a lot of work on the practicality of the project.
Nonetheless, since the plane originally had lights, it seems
reasonable to expect that this is possible to do.

As to your questions, I've thought a bit about power
requirements. There are three position lights. I've seen
LED systems that draw less than 1.5 amps total for the three
lights. The strobe LED system I looked at had specs of .4
amps at 24 volts, so it's probably close to twice that at 12
volts, say 2.5 amps for the whole system if I spend lots of
cash for an LED based system. I currently use a single 8 AH
sealed lead acid, and could afford the weight of two more of
those, so an hour flight seems possible with some margin and
that still leaves a fully charged backup battery and my comm
battery.

Does anyone here have current draw specs for standard lights
and strobes?

When I first considered this, I hoped I could just replace
the bulbs, and substitute a sealed lead acid for original
dry cells. It didn't take much work to confirm I'd need to
install at least a strobe, and it looks like a wind
generator is probably also needed to get it back to its
original certified condition. Does anyone know of any
aircraft flying at night using only batteries?

Maybe "bstanton" could get together with "keepitrunning"? One of them has
too much electricity http://tinyurl.com/8zydr and the other needs some. If
they share ideas, it should all balance out and be feng shooie.

Rich S.

"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
-- Philadelphia Phillies manager, Danny Ozark

"bstanton" null.com wrote in message
...

My original post was intended to start the process of
looking at the problems I would encounter, so I had not done
a lot of work on the practicality of the project.
Nonetheless, since the plane originally had lights, it seems
reasonable to expect that this is possible to do.


Well, it's certainly possible to run position lights, but that's not enough
today, today you also need an anticollision light. When your airplane was
built wiring for navigation lights was factory-installed standard equipment.
Navigation lights, landing lights, radio gear, battery, and a wind-driven
generator were optional equipment. You said there are lights on each
wingtip and the fin, are there actual lampholders there or is there just a
mounting pad for them? I have a 7AC, they were also pre-wired for position
lights but I never saw one that had them. The mount pads are clearly
discernible under the fabric, however.



As to your questions, I've thought a bit about power
requirements. There are three position lights. I've seen
LED systems that draw less than 1.5 amps total for the three
lights. The strobe LED system I looked at had specs of .4
amps at 24 volts, so it's probably close to twice that at 12
volts, say 2.5 amps for the whole system if I spend lots of
cash for an LED based system. I currently use a single 8 AH
sealed lead acid, and could afford the weight of two more of
those, so an hour flight seems possible with some margin and
that still leaves a fully charged backup battery and my comm
battery.

Does anyone here have current draw specs for standard lights
and strobes?

When I first considered this, I hoped I could just replace
the bulbs, and substitute a sealed lead acid for original
dry cells. It didn't take much work to confirm I'd need to
install at least a strobe, and it looks like a wind
generator is probably also needed to get it back to its
original certified condition. Does anyone know of any
aircraft flying at night using only batteries?


Do you have the type certificate data sheet for your airplane? That would
specify what electrical gear was available for installation.

I own a Champ' but like most Aeronca owners I've become a bit of a buff on
the whole line. I've seen many photos of pre-war Chiefs with the mount pads
for position lights quite discernible but without the actual lights. I've
seen some with position lights installed but without a wind-driven
generator, so it was certainly possible to operate them with just a battery.
The only Chief I recall seeing with a wind-driven generator had it mounted
above the cabin, but that was the Chief Johnnie Jones used on his
transcontinental flight in 1938 so it was probably not the standard
installation. That generator looked significantly larger than others for
this purpose.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Well, it's certainly possible to run position lights, but that's not enough
today, today you also need an anticollision light.

Yes, I read 91.205(c) before posting and it appeared that
I'd need the anticollision light, but I was also looking for
confirmation from anyone with experience. It helps to know
how the regs are actually applied. Just reading them
doesn't always give you all the information you need.

You said there are lights on each
wingtip and the fin, are there actual lampholders there or is there just a
mounting pad for them?

Not only are the lampholders there, there are bulbs in them.
I've pulled the bulbs out, but can't tell for certain if
they are intended for 6 volt or 12 volt use. The TDC
indicates an optional 6 volt battery.

I have a 7AC, they were also pre-wired for position
lights but I never saw one that had them.

The 7AC that used to be hangared near the Chief also has
lampholders and bulbs, but the owner had no more info than I
do.

Do you have the type certificate data sheet for your airplane? That would
specify what electrical gear was available for installation.

I've looked at it, but I'll look again. IIRC, it had a 6
volt battery listed as optional and a wind driven gen.

I own a Champ' but like most Aeronca owners I've become a bit of a buff on
the whole line. I've seen many photos of pre-war Chiefs with the mount pads
for position lights quite discernible but without the actual lights. I've
seen some with position lights installed but without a wind-driven
generator, so it was certainly possible to operate them with just a battery.

The A&P I asked thought my lights were originally battery
operated, but I can't really tell. That's one reason I
posted here.

The only Chief I recall seeing with a wind-driven generator had it mounted
above the cabin, but that was the Chief Johnnie Jones used on his
transcontinental flight in 1938 so it was probably not the standard
installation. That generator looked significantly larger than others for
this purpose.

There's no sign of any wind gen mounts on mine, but I
suspect that they were merely bolt on accessories, so if
mine had one, the traces are long gone. There's nothing in
the logbook about this.

If you are a Champ owner, have you read about the great bank
robbery using a Champ for the getaway, CFI's as bank robbers
and bullet holes in the fabric as they escaped?

"bstanton" wrote

... Just reading [the FARs] doesn't always give you all the information
you need.

They are specifically crafted to be that way.

bstanton wrote:

I've pulled the bulbs out, but can't tell for certain if
they are intended for 6 volt or 12 volt use.

If the bulbs have a GE identifier, you can find out the voltage.

There's no sign of any wind gen mounts on mine, but I
suspect that they were merely bolt on accessories, so if
mine had one, the traces are long gone.

From period photos I've seen, the generator attached to the left wing struts.
Here's a link to a photo of one.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...287/11AC1.html

In case you decide to pursue the generator idea, here's a link to a 337 filed by
the owner of an Aeronca 7A. Might help, especially if WagAero still sells this
thing.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:yUjvf.15561$Gu6.9039@trnddc06...

From period photos I've seen, the generator attached to the left wing
struts. Here's a link to a photo of one.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...287/11AC1.html


The 11AC is the postwar Chief.



In case you decide to pursue the generator idea, here's a link to a 337
filed by the owner of an Aeronca 7A. Might help, especially if WagAero
still sells this thing.


What link?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

What link?

Whoops!

This one .....
http://www.aeronca.com/337/air_driven_generator.pdf

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

("George Patterson" wrote)
[snip]
From period photos I've seen, the generator attached to the left wing
struts. Here's a link to a photo of one.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...287/11AC1.html


45 minutes later...

"The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its
data transfer limit. Please try again later."

I wonder if it's because of George's post? g


Montblack

Whatever the OP decides to do, I am interested in knowing how it all works
out.

--
Hello, my name is Mike, and I am an airplane addict...