Making a VFR C152 IFR

Ok, here's what I'm thinking now. Critisism of this setup not
discouraged!

- 300XL installed *VFR only*.
- PSE 6000 Audio panel with marker beacons.
- KX-155 nav/com - there's one on Ebay right now I may pick up.
- KX 209 Indicator.

Local shop tells me no more than $3500 or so for this install, including
antenna for 2nd com. Does that sound right? I'd be ditching the 385
nav/com that's in there now, of course.

Full cost of this setup assuming used KX-155 and 209 and new audio panel
should be $9-$10K. While this is definitely more money than I wanted to
spend or figured I'd have to spend, I think it may be worth it. I
actually ran a price quote on my plane (aeroprice) with this equipment
installed and was pleased to see the value go up by 80% or so of what
I'd be putting into it. I plan to keep the plane for probably 4-5 years
(until I build my RV-9).

Again, what I want to do here is have an aircraft in which I can get my
instrument ticket and be able to practice real-world instrument
approaches. Subsequent to that, I don't see myself flying hard IMC, but
being able to do a lot more flying on those marginal VFR days that keep
me grounded now. (MVFR can turn into IFR too damn easily - I've already
discovered that.)

Tell me if I'm all wet (please).

Paul Folbrecht wrote:

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR flight.)

TIA.

If you're installing the 300xl VFR only, why not just go with a handheld?
Heck, a $300 handheld would beat the 300xl in screen size and features. The
difference could buy a nice handheld com radio to use as a backup, with a
external antenna wired in.

I'm not trying to poop on a decision already made, but if you knew you were
going to be using this as a IFR training plaform, why didn't you search out
a bird with the necessary avionics? Just curious

I can't count the number of folks who get their private certificate and go
out and buy a 150/152, only to wish they bought just a bit more for
instrument training, trips, passengers, etc.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...
Ok, here's what I'm thinking now. Critisism of this setup not
discouraged!

- 300XL installed *VFR only*.
- PSE 6000 Audio panel with marker beacons.
- KX-155 nav/com - there's one on Ebay right now I may pick up.
- KX 209 Indicator.

Local shop tells me no more than $3500 or so for this install, including
antenna for 2nd com. Does that sound right? I'd be ditching the 385
nav/com that's in there now, of course.

Full cost of this setup assuming used KX-155 and 209 and new audio panel
should be $9-$10K. While this is definitely more money than I wanted to
spend or figured I'd have to spend, I think it may be worth it. I
actually ran a price quote on my plane (aeroprice) with this equipment
installed and was pleased to see the value go up by 80% or so of what
I'd be putting into it. I plan to keep the plane for probably 4-5 years
(until I build my RV-9).

Again, what I want to do here is have an aircraft in which I can get my
instrument ticket and be able to practice real-world instrument
approaches. Subsequent to that, I don't see myself flying hard IMC, but
being able to do a lot more flying on those marginal VFR days that keep
me grounded now. (MVFR can turn into IFR too damn easily - I've already
discovered that.)

Tell me if I'm all wet (please).

Paul Folbrecht wrote:

I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR
flight.)

TIA.

It took me long enough to find a plane - my #1 priority was a good,
mid-time engine with full logs. That I got.

As for going handheld GPS - doesn't the integration with the COM help a
lot? Autoselecting frequencies and such? I already have a GPS 295 - I
was planning on selling it. They fetch nearly $1000 used still.


Brad Z wrote:
If you're installing the 300xl VFR only, why not just go with a handheld?
Heck, a $300 handheld would beat the 300xl in screen size and features. The
difference could buy a nice handheld com radio to use as a backup, with a
external antenna wired in.

I'm not trying to poop on a decision already made, but if you knew you were
going to be using this as a IFR training plaform, why didn't you search out
a bird with the necessary avionics? Just curious

I can't count the number of folks who get their private certificate and go
out and buy a 150/152, only to wish they bought just a bit more for
instrument training, trips, passengers, etc.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...

Ok, here's what I'm thinking now. Critisism of this setup not
discouraged!

- 300XL installed *VFR only*.
- PSE 6000 Audio panel with marker beacons.
- KX-155 nav/com - there's one on Ebay right now I may pick up.
- KX 209 Indicator.

Local shop tells me no more than $3500 or so for this install, including
antenna for 2nd com. Does that sound right? I'd be ditching the 385
nav/com that's in there now, of course.

Full cost of this setup assuming used KX-155 and 209 and new audio panel
should be $9-$10K. While this is definitely more money than I wanted to
spend or figured I'd have to spend, I think it may be worth it. I
actually ran a price quote on my plane (aeroprice) with this equipment
installed and was pleased to see the value go up by 80% or so of what
I'd be putting into it. I plan to keep the plane for probably 4-5 years
(until I build my RV-9).

Again, what I want to do here is have an aircraft in which I can get my
instrument ticket and be able to practice real-world instrument
approaches. Subsequent to that, I don't see myself flying hard IMC, but
being able to do a lot more flying on those marginal VFR days that keep
me grounded now. (MVFR can turn into IFR too damn easily - I've already
discovered that.)

Tell me if I'm all wet (please).

Paul Folbrecht wrote:


I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR

flight.)

TIA.

My club has a bird with an IFR certified 300XL and a 430. While it does
have the database that contains runways and frequencies, I don't recall the
300XL doing any frequency autoselection. My personal opinion is that if
you're not using it as an IFR installation, it's wasting space on the panel
that could be used for a useable navcom.

I think you'll be sorely disappointed if you trade your color 295 for a tiny
green screen 300xl.

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...
It took me long enough to find a plane - my #1 priority was a good,
mid-time engine with full logs. That I got.

As for going handheld GPS - doesn't the integration with the COM help a
lot? Autoselecting frequencies and such? I already have a GPS 295 - I
was planning on selling it. They fetch nearly $1000 used still.


Brad Z wrote:
If you're installing the 300xl VFR only, why not just go with a
handheld?
Heck, a $300 handheld would beat the 300xl in screen size and features.
The
difference could buy a nice handheld com radio to use as a backup, with
a
external antenna wired in.

I'm not trying to poop on a decision already made, but if you knew you
were
going to be using this as a IFR training plaform, why didn't you search
out
a bird with the necessary avionics? Just curious

I can't count the number of folks who get their private certificate and
go
out and buy a 150/152, only to wish they bought just a bit more for
instrument training, trips, passengers, etc.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...

Ok, here's what I'm thinking now. Critisism of this setup not
discouraged!

- 300XL installed *VFR only*.
- PSE 6000 Audio panel with marker beacons.
- KX-155 nav/com - there's one on Ebay right now I may pick up.
- KX 209 Indicator.

Local shop tells me no more than $3500 or so for this install, including
antenna for 2nd com. Does that sound right? I'd be ditching the 385
nav/com that's in there now, of course.

Full cost of this setup assuming used KX-155 and 209 and new audio panel
should be $9-$10K. While this is definitely more money than I wanted to
spend or figured I'd have to spend, I think it may be worth it. I
actually ran a price quote on my plane (aeroprice) with this equipment
installed and was pleased to see the value go up by 80% or so of what
I'd be putting into it. I plan to keep the plane for probably 4-5 years
(until I build my RV-9).

Again, what I want to do here is have an aircraft in which I can get my
instrument ticket and be able to practice real-world instrument
approaches. Subsequent to that, I don't see myself flying hard IMC, but
being able to do a lot more flying on those marginal VFR days that keep
me grounded now. (MVFR can turn into IFR too damn easily - I've already
discovered that.)

Tell me if I'm all wet (please).

Paul Folbrecht wrote:


I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense
to
have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I
have
the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR

flight.)

TIA.

Well, I've not yet seen a 300XL up close, but I wouldn't have thought
the quality of the display would pale compared to my 295 (although I
knew I'd lose the color - not a big deal to me - I've seen several
grey-scale handhelds that I thought were fine).

This is more food for thought.

Brad Z wrote:

My club has a bird with an IFR certified 300XL and a 430. While it does
have the database that contains runways and frequencies, I don't recall the
300XL doing any frequency autoselection. My personal opinion is that if
you're not using it as an IFR installation, it's wasting space on the panel
that could be used for a useable navcom.

I think you'll be sorely disappointed if you trade your color 295 for a tiny
green screen 300xl.

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...

It took me long enough to find a plane - my #1 priority was a good,
mid-time engine with full logs. That I got.

As for going handheld GPS - doesn't the integration with the COM help a
lot? Autoselecting frequencies and such? I already have a GPS 295 - I
was planning on selling it. They fetch nearly $1000 used still.


Brad Z wrote:

If you're installing the 300xl VFR only, why not just go with a

handheld?

Heck, a $300 handheld would beat the 300xl in screen size and features.

The

difference could buy a nice handheld com radio to use as a backup, with

a

external antenna wired in.

I'm not trying to poop on a decision already made, but if you knew you

were

going to be using this as a IFR training plaform, why didn't you search

out

a bird with the necessary avionics? Just curious

I can't count the number of folks who get their private certificate and

go

out and buy a 150/152, only to wish they bought just a bit more for
instrument training, trips, passengers, etc.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
link.net...


Ok, here's what I'm thinking now. Critisism of this setup not
discouraged!

- 300XL installed *VFR only*.
- PSE 6000 Audio panel with marker beacons.
- KX-155 nav/com - there's one on Ebay right now I may pick up.
- KX 209 Indicator.

Local shop tells me no more than $3500 or so for this install, including
antenna for 2nd com. Does that sound right? I'd be ditching the 385
nav/com that's in there now, of course.

Full cost of this setup assuming used KX-155 and 209 and new audio panel
should be $9-$10K. While this is definitely more money than I wanted to
spend or figured I'd have to spend, I think it may be worth it. I
actually ran a price quote on my plane (aeroprice) with this equipment
installed and was pleased to see the value go up by 80% or so of what
I'd be putting into it. I plan to keep the plane for probably 4-5 years
(until I build my RV-9).

Again, what I want to do here is have an aircraft in which I can get my
instrument ticket and be able to practice real-world instrument
approaches. Subsequent to that, I don't see myself flying hard IMC, but
being able to do a lot more flying on those marginal VFR days that keep
me grounded now. (MVFR can turn into IFR too damn easily - I've already
discovered that.)

Tell me if I'm all wet (please).

Paul Folbrecht wrote:



I've just purchased a '79 152 that is currently VFR only. Avionics
consist of a single nav/com and xponder. That's it.

At some point in the next year or two I am going to want to get my
instrument ticket in this aircraft, so I'm already starting to think
about the best way to do that. Trouble is I know precious little about
IFR equipment at the moment. If someone has some good resources/links
that could get me up to speed I'd appreciate it.

Actually, I already started buying stuff. I bought an IFR Garmin 300XL
GPS on ebay (it was a steal). That's my start. I'm completely open to
suggestions on where to go from there.

Maybe a B/K 80 nav? Has everything else I need, right? I know I need
an audio (switch) panel and at least one more CDI.

I'll be searching for an avionics shop soon to install the GPS, but
until then any idea what that will cost me? Might it make some sense

to

have them do a VFR-only install initially and then do it IFR when I

have

the rest of my equipment? (I want a GPS now, of course, for VFR

flight.)


TIA.

Have you ever used a panel mount? They are better. It turns on and off
when the radios do, never needs battery changes and the twist knobs
are easier to use. I have a panel mount (KLN90B) and although the
handhelds show stuff my King doesn't, the King gets used. The 195 only
comes out occasionally.

Paul Folbrecht wrote in message link.net...
Well, I've not yet seen a 300XL up close, but I wouldn't have thought
the quality of the display would pale compared to my 295 (although I
knew I'd lose the color - not a big deal to me - I've seen several
grey-scale handhelds that I thought were fine).

This is more food for thought.

Agreed, but it doesn't sound like he's got a lot of room on the panel of the
152.

"Doug" wrote in message
om...
Have you ever used a panel mount? They are better. It turns on and off
when the radios do, never needs battery changes and the twist knobs
are easier to use. I have a panel mount (KLN90B) and although the
handhelds show stuff my King doesn't, the King gets used. The 195 only
comes out occasionally.

Paul Folbrecht wrote in message
link.net...
Well, I've not yet seen a 300XL up close, but I wouldn't have thought
the quality of the display would pale compared to my 295 (although I
knew I'd lose the color - not a big deal to me - I've seen several
grey-scale handhelds that I thought were fine).

This is more food for thought.

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
k.net...


As for going handheld GPS - doesn't the integration with the COM help a
lot? Autoselecting frequencies and such? I already have a GPS 295 - I
was planning on selling it. They fetch nearly $1000 used still.

Keep the GPS 295 and do not install a panel GPS. Autoselecting frequencies
is of only marginal help while IFR; backing up your approach on the movign
map of the 295 is very helpful, and having a backup for electrical failure
in IMC is priceless. A panel-mount GPS will give you no more utility.

For what it is worth, I fly low IMC in known-icing conditions in my
airplane, and the only GPS I have is a Garmin 295; until the precision WAAS
IFR GPS receivers come out later this year, I see no operational advantage
to a panel-mount GPS in my airplane.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
I see no operational advantage
to a panel-mount GPS in my airplane.

*No* operational advantage? Evidently you don't fly IFR to many small
airports.

An approach-certified GPS has enabled completion of two Angel Flights
for me.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

*No* operational advantage? Evidently you don't fly IFR to many small
airports.

If I were to fly to airports with only GPS approaches and nothing else then
yes, an IFR approach GPS would be helpful. My own home airport will indeed
fall into that category early early next year when an approach is
commissioned and that will be an excellent reason for me to upgrade.

But the fact is that airports with only GPS approaches are rare. How often
in a year do I go such an airport when conditions are IMC? Very rarely.

In fact, of the pilots I meet with approach IFR GPS units, I would guess
that at most 25% have ever flown an actual GPS approach in IMC weather. I
bet at most a third even keep the database up to date to permit flying a GPS
approach.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com