AOPA Truth Squad

Skylune wrote:

And the private pilot obviously walks really, really fast. The increased
walking speed I believe, because by the time the little plane lands, the
pilot really, really, really needs to take a leak.

Looks like the bathroom stop has been left off of both sides of the chart. As
for walking, it's obvious that you've never flown into FDK. The transient
aircraft parking is right outside of the FBO. It really doesn't take long to
walk 50 feet.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Skylune wrote:

Forced?

You said you were annoyed that she hung up and that there "should be a law."
Again. There should be a law to force people to listen to your drivel? That
appears to be what you propose.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
Yes, depends on the capabilities of the pilot, as well as the capabilities
of the average business traveller, who does NOT spend hours walking
around, 90 minutes in security, hours waiting for rental cars, etc.

Maybe you didn't hear about the recent United fiasco where people had to
stand in lines at ORD for 4 hours which resulted in missed flights and other
wonderful experiences. It appears you have not flown much if any commercial
in the past several years.

Skylune wrote:

Next I asked about how they arrived at the comparison of how long it would
take to fly from the Boston area to the DC area on a GA plane vs.
commercial. They referred me to a handy chart:

http://www.gaservingamerica.org/Advantages_diagram.htm

Well, I'll give you another comparison. The occasion was flying down to
Knoxville, Tennessee for my mother's 80th birthday party. My brother and I took
my Maule down.

Plan flight 30 minutes
Drive to airport 45 minutes
Load baggage 5 minutes
Preflight 15 minutes
Start & taxi to runway 5 minutes
Fly to Shenandoah Valley Regional 138 minutes
Taxi to ramp 2 minutes
Fuel stop 20 minutes
Preflight/walkaround 5 minutes
Start & taxi for TO 3 minutes
Fly to Knoxville 158 minutes
Park & leave instructions at FBO 10 minutes
Walk to car 1 minute

Total 7 hrs, 17 minutes

If I were to do it today via Delta Airlines with the current security,

Limo to airport 45 minutes
Walk in & check bags 10 minutes
Clear security 90 minutes
Boarding & pushback 15 minutes
Taxi to runway 15 minutes
Fly to Knoxville via Atlanta 329 minutes
Jetway & deplane 10 minutes
Claim baggage 15 minutes
Walk to car 10 minutes

Total 8 hours, 59 minutes

Since there were two of us, it was much cheaper to fly the Maule down than pay
Delta.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"Skylune" wrote

This absurd chart is really comparing a highly skilled, instrument
certified private pilot, flying in a high performance Doctor Killer
Bonanza, who lives across the street from his hangar and has a meeting
next to another GA airport to a businessman dunce who spends hours
wandering ineptly around parking lots, terminals, and then takes forever
to get to his Rent a Car.

I didn't see the chart so I don't know how ridiculous it was. The fact is,
more often than not GA can get you there and back quicker and with much less
hassle than commercial airlines or your car can. If you want to use GA for
serious travel, you need a serious airplane and a serious approach to your
flying and towards maintaining your proficiency. On the other hand, if you
have the time you can cross the country flying VFR in a Cub - something I'd
absolutely love to do some day.

Another example - we need to take a piece of delicate, yet somewhat heavy
(150 lbs) demo equipment to a customer. What makes more sense, ship it both
ways hoping it doesn't get damaged and hope that it's there when you show
up, take it on the airline (good luck) if you can and hope it doesn't get
damaged, drive the car 8 hrs each way, or fly GA where you can take it with
you and land within a short drive of your destination, do the demo, get the
order, and be back in time for dinner (and also not lose the use of the demo
for several days while it is in transit if you shipped it).

Several years ago we had a prospective client who was leaning towards the
competition. He didn't have the time to come up to see our plant and our
product and he wanted to make his decision right away. We offered to fly
him to our plant for a visit and a product demo and promised to have him
back in his office that afternoon - he jumped at the chance. It was a
beautiful CAVU day and that flight could have been made by any pilot in just
about any airplane. We got the order, and that one order (which we would
have lost were it not for our GA capabilities) paid for half the cost of our
airplane. Since that day that airplane has made many similar flights and
has paid for itself many times over. BTW - this flight was from New England
to eastern Long Island - a 45 min flight across the sound versus a 6-8 hr
drive each way, or more depending on traffic. A commercial flight was not
even an option.

You appear to have very limited exposure to GA and the things it can make
possible, either that, or you are a very short-sighted person. Not all GA
flying is a hamburger hop in a 150, but then, there's also nothing like
flying just for the joy of it. Work isn't everything.

by George Patterson Jan 10, 2006 at 11:54 PM


Skylune wrote:

Next I asked about how they arrived at the comparison of how long it
would
take to fly from the Boston area to the DC area on a GA plane vs.
commercial. They referred me to a handy chart:

http://www.gaservingamerica.org/Advantages_diagram.htm

Well, I'll give you another comparison. The occasion was flying down to
Knoxville, Tennessee for my mother's 80th birthday party. My brother and
I
took
my Maule down.....

That comparison seems far more reasonable than what was on the AOPA
website. Sure they are an advocacy organization. But I just don't
understand why they think that need to resort to total BS to sell their
product. Then they wonder why there are such high drop out rates by
trainees....

On cost though: its cheaper for YOU in terms of marginal cost (fuel,
tie-down or hangar fees, etc.). But for someone to take up flying in
order to save time, which is the ad's goal, it would be much more
expensive (factoring in flight training, amortizing the cost of the
airplane (or renting).

These misleading ads on the web site

George Patterson wrote:

Since there were two of us, it was much cheaper to fly the Maule down than
pay Delta.


Another factor is uncertainty. If a GA flight is delayed, there's no hiding
of the expected delay. The delay itself may be uncertain (ie. due to
weather), but it's an uncertainty built around known conditions and
requirements. No secrets.

Commercial air does a lousy job of letting the cargo know what's going on
and when.

Similarly, if a GA flight is delayed, the crew and passengers aren't stuck
in a tin can waiting for some unknown period of time in a parking area
somewhere on the airport.

Yes, delays occur. But they're more painful on commercial flights.

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote

Yes, delays occur. But they're more painful on commercial flights.

Anyone who doesn't believe that should watch "Airline" on A & E some night.
Yikes!!

by Andrew Gideon ag7337@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jan 11, 2006 at 12:56 PM


George Patterson wrote:

Since there were two of us, it was much cheaper to fly the Maule down
than
pay Delta.


Another factor is uncertainty. If a GA flight is delayed, there's no
hiding
of the expected delay. The delay itself may be uncertain (ie. due to
weather), but it's an uncertainty built around known conditions and
requirements. No secrets.

Commercial air does a lousy job of letting the cargo know what's going on
and when.

Similarly, if a GA flight is delayed, the crew and passengers aren't
stuck
in a tin can waiting for some unknown period of time in a parking area
somewhere on the airport.

Yes, delays occur. But they're more painful on commercial flights.

- Andrew

Yeah. Being in control is definitely a plus. Once those airlines
gotcha..... I have had several flights cancelled due to "mechanical
problems:" airline speak for underbooked flight so they can put you on
the next one.

Still think that VFR ticket is only for fun though, or for people who
travel for pleasure and have very flexible schedules. Can't rely on the
VFR only ticket to make business meetings.

by George Patterson Jan 10, 2006 at 10:50 PM


Skylune wrote:

Forced?

You said you were annoyed that she hung up and that there "should be a
law."
Again. There should be a law to force people to listen to your drivel?
That
appears to be what you propose.

There should be no law to force anyone to listen to my rants. There.