Lancaster California: Another Fatal Cirrus Crash

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
I suppose about one fatal mishap per year is not too alarming. But it
just feels like there have been more lately. I still wonder how many
final Cirrus crash reports the NTSB has yet to issue.

(Cirrus Design) starting in 1990 with the VK-30. 18 are reported as Fatal.


First customer delivery of the SR20 was 1999, according to Cirrus site. Mid
'99 according to other sites.

SR22 was Certified in 2000 or 2001 - different web pages say different
things. First customer delivery ...2001? 7 had been delivered as of May
2001.
http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2001/feat0105.html

Starting in Jan 2000, we're in a 6 year bracket with the planes in question.


Montblack

Baloney. Have you even tried this? Let's say you have the plane
trimmed for an 85 kt climb. Now remove power. What happens? The nose
will come down as the plane attempts to maintain 85 kts, all without any
input from you. You have a lot more time than you think.



cpu wrote:
When I was given a demo flight by Cirrus, I checked their glide ratio
is...VERY IMPRESSIVE (9:1)....however, here is the catch: the best
glide speed is at 110kt. On a climb out like this (Vx may be 85), you
have only few seconds to lower the nose and prepare for a crash landing
in front of you. Otherise, stall and spin.

Baloney. Have you even tried this? Let's say you have the plane
trimmed for an 85 kt climb. Now remove power. What happens? The nose
will come down as the plane attempts to maintain 85 kts, all without any
input from you. You have a lot more time than you think.

I did not try engine fail practice in Cirrus. However, every pilot
knows during initial climb out if engine fail, you have to lower the
noise IMMEDIATELY ON ANY SEL AIRCRAFT. Countless such take off crash
cases not limit to Cirrus. You can go to AOPA's Air Safety Foundation
to read on the training material about how to do during take off engine
fail. I believe while that SR-20 turned crosswind, he did not reach
800 feet AGL.... you have only seconds to choice a landing spot even
if you lower the nose correctly. I don't understand what do you mean
"a lot of time", basically, you don't have "a lot of time". That is
also proved by the witness of the crash. (from engine quit to crash
only took a few seconds).

You probably did that 85 kt well-trimmed power loss in higher altitude
(in a practice area). I don't think you did this in 500 feet AGL,
didn't you? (otherwise you won't say you will have "plenty" of time).

cpu wrote:

I did not try engine fail practice in Cirrus. However, every pilot
knows during initial climb out if engine fail, you have to lower the
noise IMMEDIATELY ON ANY SEL AIRCRAFT.

Yeah, we get told that. In fact, however, the nose will drop all by itself in
most light aircraft. If the pilot doesn't stop it from doing so. The problem is
that it takes a real effort of will on the part of the pilot to avoid applying
back pressure on the yoke in an attempt to maintain attitude. My Maule was so
sensitive to power application, that you could stall the aircraft by applying
power for a go-around.

Try it sometime.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Yeah, we get told that. In fact, however, the nose will drop all by itself in
most light aircraft. If the pilot doesn't stop it from doing so.

Your point is well taken. No question about that. From ASF's
material, a pilot will take 4 to 10 seonds to "realize" or "register"
the trouble. So there isn't really much time left. Plus the
instructor usually will take over when he "feels" the student can't
handle it. But in a less-forgiving aircraft, the instructor must be
very fast and determined, otherwise, it can cause death like this.

That's tragic. Hitting a little close to home for me. I'll bet I met the
instructor at the last Cirrus demo in Van Nuys. I noticed only one other
instructor on the web site now too, so yeah, they removed her name already.
That's if it is who I think it is.
The local news will probably release the names in the next couple days.
Alex
"cpu" wrote in message
oups.com...
They've removed the crashed aircraft, quickly. You can still see the
cached version in Google by typing N526CD and click their cached
version web content.

#1ACGuy wrote:
That's tragic. Hitting a little close to home for me. I'll bet I met the
instructor at the last Cirrus demo in Van Nuys. I noticed only one other
instructor on the web site now too, so yeah, they removed her name already.
That's if it is who I think it is.

It's not, she is alive and well, checked in on a message board right
away.
It was a male instructor I am told. (not Gene Hudson)

The local news will probably release the names in the next couple days.
The student is a husband and a father of a small child.
My friend called his wife the same night and found out it was him.

It tears your heart out.
We all don't know what happened, and we may never know.

You can just barely understand how the family must feel. This was
supposed to be the best and newest and the safest. Spared no expense.
And then this.

It's hard to hear one close to home. There were familiar faces in my
home field, the next day they were gone (hit the radio tower near
airport, night VFR went terribly wrong....etc.)

Been attended one of the FAA Wings seminar at Gene's school. One of
the best ones. My heart and thoughts go to the families and love ones
of deceased. RIP

On a climb out like this (Vx may be 85), you
have only few seconds to lower the nose and prepare for a crash landing

in front of you. Otherise, stall and spin.

So, if you don't lower the nose immediately the plane will
*automatically* stall and spin? I doubt it, seeing as the stall would
have to be uncoordinated and the Cirrus has wing cuffs to make it
spin-resistant and keep the ailerons flying through the stall.

I went on a 1 hour CFI demo in a SR22-GTS last summer and was
thoroughly impressed with the plane. I discussed the plane's accident
history witht the demo pilot and his take (like most I think) is that
it's generally unfamiliarity with the plane aggravated by
low-time/inexperienced pilots that's been the root of most of these
accidents. With such little drag the plane shoud glide quite well
although at a higher speed than other GA singles.

Wooly

per George's point, one should try it in whatever one flies rather than
beleive what is written. There is no question that many people will
react incorrectly but my experience is that it's not quite the way it is
written up.

4 to 10 seconds is an eternity that will lead to eternity.... I suggest
that one knows that their (single) engine quit on takeoff immediately
and one will tend to react quickly.

The inexperienced may immediately try to hold the nose where it was -
that will stall/spin them in.

The well read but inexperienced may immediately try to dump the nose too
quickly and overshoot best glide. This will lose total energy and the
"500 foot turn and return to the airport" will be quite impossible.

Practice in a particular a/c will be a revelation to many. First, my
experience suggests that on some a/c, the nose will immediately seek
trim speed and the nose will fall. Presuming an optimal climb from
takeoff, you will probably need to slow a bit for max level glide. So a
little pull will be called for during this manuever. If a turn is
required, especially a 180, an immediate 'sharp' bank is required. The
bank needs to be well beyond a standard rate, the nose will have to be
held up to make it.

If you practice it, it is quite amazing what can be done in terms of a
return to airport from less than pattern altitude. If you don't
practice it, it is quite amazing how far short you will be - or how fast
the stall spin will develop.

If you don't practice, put the nose in a steep final approach attitude -
cross check the airspeed and fly to a landing within 20 degrees of you
heading.

The Cirrus is a pretty hot ship it seems. It's not about glass, it's
about wing loading.

cpu wrote:
Yeah, we get told that. In fact, however, the nose will drop all by itself in

most light aircraft. If the pilot doesn't stop it from doing so.

Your point is well taken. No question about that. From ASF's
material, a pilot will take 4 to 10 seonds to "realize" or "register"
the trouble. So there isn't really much time left. Plus the
instructor usually will take over when he "feels" the student can't
handle it. But in a less-forgiving aircraft, the instructor must be
very fast and determined, otherwise, it can cause death like this.