Lancaster California: Another Fatal Cirrus Crash

wrote)
I went on a 1 hour CFI demo in a SR22-GTS last summer and was thoroughly
impressed with the plane. I discussed the plane's accident history witht
the demo pilot and his take (like most I think) is that it's generally
unfamiliarity with the plane aggravated by low-time/inexperienced pilots
that's been the root of most of these accidents.


I thought a Cirrus demo pilot died in a Cirrus a year or two ago. Not the
test pilot in '99, but a factory designated demo safety pilot rep - whatever
they're called.


Montblack

I thought a Cirrus demo pilot died in a Cirrus a year or two ago. Not the
test pilot in '99, but a factory designated demo safety pilot rep -
whatever
they're called.

I hadn't heard of that - Hmmm...if so, that wouldn't be very good PR
would it?

Wooly

cpu wrote:




I did not try engine fail practice in Cirrus. However, every pilot
knows during initial climb out if engine fail, you have to lower the
noise IMMEDIATELY ON ANY SEL AIRCRAFT.

Again, baloney. The plane will stay at the trimmed airspeed until it
hits the ground. You may want to push the nose over to hit a certain
spot but it is not necessary to keep the plane in the air.


Countless such take off crash
cases not limit to Cirrus. You can go to AOPA's Air Safety Foundation
to read on the training material about how to do during take off engine
fail. I believe while that SR-20 turned crosswind, he did not reach
800 feet AGL.... you have only seconds to choice a landing spot even
if you lower the nose correctly.

From 800 feet??? I thought you were talking close to the ground. When
I had my 182 I needed 450 feet to return to the runway I took off from,
landing opposite direction. From 800 feet I will make a pattern of it
and land the same way I took off.


I don't understand what do you mean
"a lot of time", basically, you don't have "a lot of time".

That of course is a relative term but from 800 feet you will have over a
minute before you hit the ground.


That is
also proved by the witness of the crash. (from engine quit to crash
only took a few seconds).

The only way to hit the ground within a few seconds from 800 feet is to
roll the plane over and aim it straight at the ground.



You probably did that 85 kt well-trimmed power loss in higher altitude
(in a practice area). I don't think you did this in 500 feet AGL,
didn't you? (otherwise you won't say you will have "plenty" of time).

The amount of time it takes to go from 800 AGL to 0 AGL is the same as
from 2000 AGL to 1200 AGL.

Maule Driver wrote:

First, my
experience suggests that on some a/c, the nose will immediately seek
trim speed and the nose will fall.

What aircraft does not seek its trimmed airspeed?

None that I know of. I just didn't want to argue the point.

But now that you brought it up, do *all* a/c seek the same rim speed if
the engine quits versus full climb power? I assume so but honestly
don't know for sure (e.g. does a T-tail respond a bit differently than a
'convential' tail)

Newps wrote:

Maule Driver wrote:
my experience suggests that on some a/c, the nose will immediately seek
trim speed and the nose will fall.

What aircraft does not seek its trimmed airspeed?

Newps wrote:
cpu wrote:
I did not try engine fail practice in Cirrus. However, every pilot
knows during initial climb out if engine fail, you have to lower the
noise IMMEDIATELY ON ANY SEL AIRCRAFT.

Again, baloney. The plane will stay at the trimmed airspeed until it
hits the ground. You may want to push the nose over to hit a certain
spot but it is not necessary to keep the plane in the air.

Well, it will seek it's trim speed but hands-off, most if not all
aircraft will overshoot it a bit before finding it in the case of sudden
power loss. But agree with the point less stridently taken.

The airplane will pitch to its trimmed speed. Always. How can it not?

Maule Driver wrote:
None that I know of. I just didn't want to argue the point.

But now that you brought it up, do *all* a/c seek the same rim speed if
the engine quits versus full climb power? I assume so but honestly
don't know for sure (e.g. does a T-tail respond a bit differently than a
'convential' tail)

Newps wrote:

Maule Driver wrote:

my experience suggests that on some a/c, the nose will immediately
seek trim speed and the nose will fall.


What aircraft does not seek its trimmed airspeed?

wrote:
I went on a 1 hour CFI demo in a SR22-GTS last summer and was
thoroughly impressed with the plane. I discussed the plane's accident
history witht the demo pilot and his take (like most I think) is that
it's generally unfamiliarity with the plane aggravated by
low-time/inexperienced pilots that's been the root of most of these
accidents. With such little drag the plane shoud glide quite well
although at a higher speed than other GA singles.

Wooly

I would point to 'higher wing loading' rather than 'low drag' as the
thing that makes it both hotter than a C182 and a fast glider.

Picking some quick numbers off a few Google searches:
C182 - 17.8 lbs/sf
S22 - 23.5 lbs/sf
How about a 'Bo?
P35 - 17.2 lbs/sf (interesting)

"Maule Driver" wrote

The Cirrus is a pretty hot ship it seems. It's not about glass, it's
about wing loading.


AND the lack of drag to slow it down, once it is pointed back down, IMHO.
--
Jim in NC

"Newps" wrote

The airplane will pitch to its trimmed speed. Always. How can it not?

But how quickly will it do so? Will some designs do so, more rapidly than
others?

Not arguing, just asking.
--
Jim in NC